username

The Chinese say "Kill the chicken to warn the monkey". So, in the Internet age, UA knows if they make some examples of the chickens, it will stop the monkeys However, if UA let the chicken slide, the monkeys will have no fear...

tom911

Those of us that have been around the UA forum a while might recall this 2006 thread where the flyer, ticketed by her cousin's work friend to fly to a wedding in Australia, didn't know anything about who provided her the award ticket and was denied boarding. It's a classic case of what can go wrong at the airline counter if you don't have all the answers.

Award Ticket Fraud?

eng3

I understand and I'm not arguing. The way sybloc wrote his replies did not help himself, but that alone shouldnt be enough to make a guy guilty.

Perhaps. I'm sure it's easier for UA's fraud team to only have to deal with a person once than potentially twice. However, Giving one warning just delays and potentially reduces the "chicken killing" not eliminate it.

eng3

I'll have to read through that thread. What was the final outcome? Were any rules actually broken? If no, what happened with the pax that missed the wedding? That is why I think "warnings" are more reasonable than making snap decisions without even talking to the suspected party. UA is capable of making errors.

Kacee

And I was agreeing that your hesitation to convict is fair and judicious given the absence of hard facts

jd2000

Indeed. This all reminds me of when Bob Probert got caught with cocaine in his underwear crossing between Windsor and Detroit. I knew an awful lot of people who made that crossing an awful lot of times, none of them carrying anything in their underwear, and not once did any of them have their underwear inspected.

Nothing to see here, move along. Future posters: please stop wasting people's time with these "after 40 replies I'll admit that I was up to something that violated the T&C" stories.

emcampbe

sorry, claiming ignorance isn't really an excuse. UA makes one consent to the rules each year (when you sign into your MP account online). Those who choose not to read the rules aren't exempt from them, nor should they really be. UA gets to decide whether to give out warnings or not - perhaps in some cases that aren't agregious they do. Sounds like UA had god cause for this, and they knew it.

In the most recent case, it's clear that the OP was taking advantage of the system through churning, MS, etc. UA is very well aware of this - in fact, they can tell where the miles come from, and I'd be surprised if they didn't use this as a factor. While they claim that UA will be the ones to lose, it sounds to me like they aren't - here we have someone who sounds like they aren't bringing much value to UA. Using these tactics to 'earn' horsds of miles, then trying to sell them to others doesn't sound like someone that UA would lose on after firing them.

tom911

The member disappeared after two posts and never returned with an update.

They bought a last-minute consolidator ticket and still got there.

MY-OTHER-BROTHER-"TED"

This guy has been toying with you boys long enough --- He got busted for the highlighted area of the below rules.

The sale or barter or attempted sale or barter of any such mileage, certificates, awards or benefits other than as authorized and/or sponsored by United is expressly prohibited. Any mileage, certificates, awards or benefits transferred, assigned or sold in violation of the Program Rules, in addition to exposing the member to the penalties otherwise associated with violations, may be confiscated or canceled.

He offered or advertised them for sale and a UA Narc somehow found out about his game (probably inquired about them and found out who he was) and that's all it took. ATTEMPT (in itself) IS VERBOTTEN!!!

notquiteaff

For future reference:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alask...ccount+closure

Mike Jacoubowsky

People seem to assume it's United going after the MP award abuse, when it may in fact be Chase who's the driving force, going after card churners. That would help to explain how the abuse is found, as there's likely a high correlation between the two (card churning and MP award abuse). Card churning is likely fairly easy to find.

Ironic that my screen is presently filled with Chase CC offers...

JonNYC

Definitely not, it's United.

Billiken

Absolutely...
Chase closes down churners and manufacturered spenders with the cancellation of all their Chase-issued cards

eng3

That isnt what I said at all.

After reading through the first few pages of that thread I'm even more convinced that UA should modify its practices. It gives any excellent example of cases where one can be innocent and entirely screwed by UA. Whether they start giving warnings or whatever, they should at least talk to the person first before taking drastic action.

I've moved on from sybloc, I hope whatever happens with his acct fits whatever he did or did not do. I was just making general comments regarding UA's handling of suspected fraud cases and my opinion of what they should do to improve. But I agree, its time to move on, we can debate as long as we want, UA will and forever do whatever they want and nothing we say will make much of a difference.

raehl311

Well I've definitely never bought tickets for people who didn't know where they came from...


Considering that was from 2006, a DECADE ago, what's to say they haven't?

I'm sure they at minimum have more sophisticated methods than back then.