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MP Accounts Closed by UA Alleging Fraud/Misuse

MP Accounts Closed by UA Alleging Fraud/Misuse

Old Jan 29, 14, 6:03 pm
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by Air Houston View Post
I don't think UA is going to close anyone's account because they also keep track of their spouse's and kids' accounts. That isn't fraud.
It doesn't have to be fraud to close someone's account. It only has to be a violation of the program's rules and conditions. As cited above, managing someone else's account is a violation of the Mileage Plus rules so United, trying to cut $2-Billion in costs, could permissibly close accounts managed by someone else (e.g., multiple accounts tied to a single e-mail address).

If UA does so, what can you do about it?

As shown in the recent loss in the Million Miler case, nothing.

Caveat emptor.
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Old Jan 29, 14, 6:04 pm
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by BH62 View Post
FWIW, and I'm sure that this is the case for *many* couples, Ms BH & I have different surnames, we share the same address, we've been happily married for 20+ yrs & we are both 1Ks who often travel together. I am the "travel agent" for the two of us & in that role book flights & in the course of doing so "manage" both accounts, for example, to apply GPUs, etc, etc, which leads to that wonderful experience & possible adverse consequences of splitting PNRs, etc, etc even though we're on the same itinerary (but I digress).
Sure, but you also have them probably as a stored traveler in your MP account. And there's a big difference between a couple and 12 people. Another big difference between a home address and a corporate address.
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Old Jan 29, 14, 6:15 pm
  #48  
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Originally Posted by B747SP View Post
....A few really do not care about their miles as they fly very infrequently, and have given away award tickets to colleagues and friends including me. .....
Originally Posted by B747SP View Post
....
For simplicity I set up everyone's account with the company address and the same PIN. .....
and same e-mail?

While in this case there were clearly some major red flags to UA (isn't Big Data wonderful), before FT goes too far off into the deep end on managing family accounts, how many accounts were you administrating?
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Old Jan 29, 14, 6:17 pm
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by takeahike66 View Post
Other threads on violation of rules, states that this is the norm in the majority of cases. Remember - violation of rules is a condition for termination.
Sad but true, airlines can close accounts for what they call rules violations...

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...Tabs%3Darticle

But one is fighting back...

http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/08/05/38771.htm

Airlines don't always close accounts. AA took a different approach in a case they called fraudulent ticketing. Instead of closing the account, they just wanted $20,000...

http://elliott.org/blog/can-this-tri...es-want-20000/
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Old Jan 29, 14, 6:29 pm
  #50  
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Originally Posted by GoAmtrak View Post
As noted in many upthread examples, you could substitute "family" for "company" and "immediate relatives" for "employees" instead. There are too many grey areas, and this course of action by MP seems very drastic. They could have instead sought to contact each individual member (via the administrator if necessary) to get verbal assurances from each member that the arrangement was consensual. Without having more than the OP's word to go on, the response seems disproportionate and ultimately counterproductive if this corporate spend is going away as a result.
Originally Posted by GoAmtrak View Post
That would be wrong. I still wonder (again, without seeing the full picture), why MP handled this via summary closure without any kind of warning or inquiry.
Originally Posted by villox View Post
Because maybe they felt they had enough evidence to do so.

From other people who've posted on here in the past about accounts being closed, it does seem they have a "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality. One could certainly argue that they are a bit shortsighted in this regard as they may be giving up a ton of revenue by taking this action and driving this company full of HVFs away from United, but then it wouldn't be the first decision like this.
Originally Posted by vkykam View Post
I think the fact that it was multiple accounts sharing an address, with multiple last names, and the "cross-benefits" that was happening such as rental car miles depositing and not matching names, or one person using another account's miles, caused the red flags. I can see how United would see this as pooling and frown upon it, but I do also agree that the actions were drastic and that United should have at least warned before axing. I highly doubt they would have caught on if all the addresses were different...

There are days when I wonder whether SMI/J is actively looking to cut $2B in costs, or $2B in revenue...
Based on what we now know, I can understand UA raising questions about all this. But I agree that cutting off all of these accounts really does seem like a revenue-cutting strategy. The real test will be whether UA restores the miles and accounts after the OP (and her colleagues) explain the situation...and whether UA has the sense and flexibility to respond appropriately. Otherwise, just add this to the long list of how SMI/J and company are seeking to alienate customers.
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Old Jan 29, 14, 6:52 pm
  #51  
 
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MP account investigation

First timer here but has anyone had any experience where they breached MP terms and conditions and yet MP just confiscate a portion of your miles?

Or are 'account termination/closure' and 'all award booking canceled' destined fates no matter what kind of wrongs you may have done? I did a search and it seems most are closed and there aren't much room to negotiate
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Old Jan 29, 14, 6:58 pm
  #52  
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Welcome to FT!, GoGoGoTom

yes it can and does happen as you have found by search (many cases in this forum). In fact a case today, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...me-person.html

Can you negotiate? You can try by UA has all the power.

You will find the airlines once provoked can get very nasty.

You can certainty test your circumstances with the forum but be prepared for some harsh opinions.
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Old Jan 29, 14, 6:59 pm
  #53  
 
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Originally Posted by GoGoGoTom View Post
First timer here but has anyone had any experience where they breached MP terms and conditions and yet MP just confiscate a portion of your miles?

Or are 'account termination/closure' and 'all award booking canceled' destined fates no matter what kind of wrongs you may have done? I did a search and it seems most are closed and there aren't much room to negotiate
The former can happen.

For us to tell, backstory, please.

I'm assuming you did something wrong....
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Old Jan 29, 14, 7:06 pm
  #54  
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OP here again. I can also understand why UA would have problem with our practice now that I am aware of the "no delegation" rule. By this rule there were red flags all over the place: same address, different names, cross/shared benefit, same PIN, similar email address, same IP/cookie for logging into united.com. As I said, I did not know managing colleagues' accounts for them was against the rule. I did not even try to hide it. My only problem was that there was no inquiry, no warning and no chance to correct the violation. By the MP terms and conditions this is within UA's authority (well, the miles belong to UA not you and me anyway if you read the MP rules.). For me and my colleagues it does not worth the effort for each of us to call and try to get the accounts restored.
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Old Jan 29, 14, 7:29 pm
  #55  
 
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Thanks guys, I was just trying to see if UA will just 'recover' their damages or impose a much larger (or ultimate) penalty on naughty MP members
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Old Jan 29, 14, 7:30 pm
  #56  
 
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Originally Posted by B747SP View Post
OP here again. I can also understand why UA would have problem with our practice now that I am aware of the "no delegation" rule. By this rule there were red flags all over the place: same address, different names, cross/shared benefit, same PIN, similar email address, same IP/cookie for logging into united.com. As I said, I did not know managing colleagues' accounts for them was against the rule. I did not even try to hide it. My only problem was that there was no inquiry, no warning and no chance to correct the violation. By the MP terms and conditions this is within UA's authority (well, the miles belong to UA not you and me anyway if you read the MP rules.). For me and my colleagues it does not worth the effort for each of us to call and try to get the accounts restored.
OP, do yourself a favor. If folks are flying SFO-HKG, book them on SQ or CX, they will have a much better flight experience and will thank you for not having them fly UAL any longer...
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Old Jan 29, 14, 7:40 pm
  #57  
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UA, like all carriers, writes its rules broadly and then enforces them selectively. I strongly suspect, but nobody can be certain, that UA could care less about people "managing" their immediate relatives' accounts or their executive assistant using their password.

But, this had all the makings of a commercial operation and it got shut down.

OP doesn't believe that it's worth his time to write in to UA with an explanation. I find that very odd. I have no idea what UA's security folks will do, but I can't imagine not sending in a webform acknowledging the error, noting that no other violations took place, e.g., the miles were not sold or bartered, and asking UA to reconsider.

But, that's up to OP.
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Old Jan 29, 14, 7:41 pm
  #58  
 
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Originally Posted by scottsam66 View Post
I once worked for a company-- very very large company whose policy was that all miles/points accrued while traveling on company business is property of the company. It wasn't really enforced, but that was official policy.
Wonder if they were upset when they discovered that the miles still belonged to the airline ??
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Old Jan 29, 14, 7:42 pm
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
UA, like all carriers, writes its rules broadly and then enforces them selectively. I strongly suspect, but nobody can be certain, that UA could care less about people "managing" their immediate relatives' accounts or their executive assistant using their password.

But, this had all the makings of a commercial operation and it got shut down.

OP doesn't believe that it's worth his time to write in to UA with an explanation. I find that very odd. I have no idea what UA's security folks will do, but I can't imagine not sending in a webform acknowledging the error, noting that no other violations took place, e.g., the miles were not sold or bartered, and asking UA to reconsider.

But, that's up to OP.
All the makings of a CHUMP thread where the rest of the story is missing.

Do MP annual fees count towards PDQ ?
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Old Jan 29, 14, 8:26 pm
  #60  
 
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Have any of these 'rules' ever been tested in countries with actual consumer protection laws rather than in the US? It seems hard to believe you could get away with such arbitrary consumer contracts under EU regulations.
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