MP Accounts Closed by UA Alleging Fraud/Misuse
Jan 29, 2014, 5:03 pm
#46
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
If UA does so, what can you do about it?
As shown in the recent loss in the Million Miler case, nothing.
Caveat emptor.
Jan 29, 2014, 5:04 pm
#47
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 2,438
FWIW, and I'm sure that this is the case for *many* couples, Ms BH & I have different surnames, we share the same address, we've been happily married for 20+ yrs & we are both 1Ks who often travel together. I am the "travel agent" for the two of us & in that role book flights & in the course of doing so "manage" both accounts, for example, to apply GPUs, etc, etc, which leads to that wonderful experience & possible adverse consequences of splitting PNRs, etc, etc even though we're on the same itinerary (but I digress).
Jan 29, 2014, 5:15 pm
#48
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,834
While in this case there were clearly some major red flags to UA (isn't Big Data wonderful), before FT goes too far off into the deep end on managing family accounts, how many accounts were you administrating?
Jan 29, 2014, 5:17 pm
#49
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MCO
Programs: DL DM/MM, Marriott Plat Premier, HH Diamond, Hyatt Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 4,081
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...Tabs%3Darticle
But one is fighting back...
http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/08/05/38771.htm
Airlines don't always close accounts. AA took a different approach in a case they called fraudulent ticketing. Instead of closing the account, they just wanted $20,000...
http://elliott.org/blog/can-this-tri...es-want-20000/
Jan 29, 2014, 5:29 pm
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
As noted in many upthread examples, you could substitute "family" for "company" and "immediate relatives" for "employees" instead. There are too many grey areas, and this course of action by MP seems very drastic. They could have instead sought to contact each individual member (via the administrator if necessary) to get verbal assurances from each member that the arrangement was consensual. Without having more than the OP's word to go on, the response seems disproportionate and ultimately counterproductive if this corporate spend is going away as a result. 
Because maybe they felt they had enough evidence to do so.
From other people who've posted on here in the past about accounts being closed, it does seem they have a "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality. One could certainly argue that they are a bit shortsighted in this regard as they may be giving up a ton of revenue by taking this action and driving this company full of HVFs away from United, but then it wouldn't be the first decision like this.
From other people who've posted on here in the past about accounts being closed, it does seem they have a "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality. One could certainly argue that they are a bit shortsighted in this regard as they may be giving up a ton of revenue by taking this action and driving this company full of HVFs away from United, but then it wouldn't be the first decision like this.
I think the fact that it was multiple accounts sharing an address, with multiple last names, and the "cross-benefits" that was happening such as rental car miles depositing and not matching names, or one person using another account's miles, caused the red flags. I can see how United would see this as pooling and frown upon it, but I do also agree that the actions were drastic and that United should have at least warned before axing. I highly doubt they would have caught on if all the addresses were different...
There are days when I wonder whether SMI/J is actively looking to cut $2B in costs, or $2B in revenue...
There are days when I wonder whether SMI/J is actively looking to cut $2B in costs, or $2B in revenue...
The real test will be whether UA restores the miles and accounts after the OP (and her colleagues) explain the situation...and whether UA has the sense and flexibility to respond appropriately. Otherwise, just add this to the long list of how SMI/J and company are seeking to alienate customers.
Jan 29, 2014, 5:52 pm
#51
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2
MP account investigation
First timer here but has anyone had any experience where they breached MP terms and conditions and yet MP just confiscate a portion of your miles?
Or are 'account termination/closure' and 'all award booking canceled' destined fates no matter what kind of wrongs you may have done? I did a search and it seems most are closed and there aren't much room to negotiate
Or are 'account termination/closure' and 'all award booking canceled' destined fates no matter what kind of wrongs you may have done? I did a search and it seems most are closed and there aren't much room to negotiate
Jan 29, 2014, 5:58 pm
#52
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,834
Welcome to FT!, GoGoGoTom
yes it can and does happen as you have found by search (many cases in this forum). In fact a case today, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...me-person.html
Can you negotiate? You can try by UA has all the power.
You will find the airlines once provoked can get very nasty.
You can certainty test your circumstances with the forum but be prepared for some harsh opinions.
yes it can and does happen as you have found by search (many cases in this forum). In fact a case today, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...me-person.html
Can you negotiate? You can try by UA has all the power.
You will find the airlines once provoked can get very nasty.
You can certainty test your circumstances with the forum but be prepared for some harsh opinions.
Jan 29, 2014, 5:59 pm
#53
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Silicon wasteland
Programs: UA 1KMM
Posts: 1,381
First timer here but has anyone had any experience where they breached MP terms and conditions and yet MP just confiscate a portion of your miles?
Or are 'account termination/closure' and 'all award booking canceled' destined fates no matter what kind of wrongs you may have done? I did a search and it seems most are closed and there aren't much room to negotiate
Or are 'account termination/closure' and 'all award booking canceled' destined fates no matter what kind of wrongs you may have done? I did a search and it seems most are closed and there aren't much room to negotiate
For us to tell, backstory, please.
I'm assuming you did something wrong....
Jan 29, 2014, 6:06 pm
#54
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 518
OP here again. I can also understand why UA would have problem with our practice now that I am aware of the "no delegation" rule. By this rule there were red flags all over the place: same address, different names, cross/shared benefit, same PIN, similar email address, same IP/cookie for logging into united.com. As I said, I did not know managing colleagues' accounts for them was against the rule. I did not even try to hide it. My only problem was that there was no inquiry, no warning and no chance to correct the violation. By the MP terms and conditions this is within UA's authority (well, the miles belong to UA not you and me anyway if you read the MP rules.). For me and my colleagues it does not worth the effort for each of us to call and try to get the accounts restored.
Jan 29, 2014, 6:30 pm
#56
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
OP here again. I can also understand why UA would have problem with our practice now that I am aware of the "no delegation" rule. By this rule there were red flags all over the place: same address, different names, cross/shared benefit, same PIN, similar email address, same IP/cookie for logging into united.com. As I said, I did not know managing colleagues' accounts for them was against the rule. I did not even try to hide it. My only problem was that there was no inquiry, no warning and no chance to correct the violation. By the MP terms and conditions this is within UA's authority (well, the miles belong to UA not you and me anyway if you read the MP rules.). For me and my colleagues it does not worth the effort for each of us to call and try to get the accounts restored.
Jan 29, 2014, 6:40 pm
#57
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
UA, like all carriers, writes its rules broadly and then enforces them selectively. I strongly suspect, but nobody can be certain, that UA could care less about people "managing" their immediate relatives' accounts or their executive assistant using their password.
But, this had all the makings of a commercial operation and it got shut down.
OP doesn't believe that it's worth his time to write in to UA with an explanation. I find that very odd. I have no idea what UA's security folks will do, but I can't imagine not sending in a webform acknowledging the error, noting that no other violations took place, e.g., the miles were not sold or bartered, and asking UA to reconsider.
But, that's up to OP.
But, this had all the makings of a commercial operation and it got shut down.
OP doesn't believe that it's worth his time to write in to UA with an explanation. I find that very odd. I have no idea what UA's security folks will do, but I can't imagine not sending in a webform acknowledging the error, noting that no other violations took place, e.g., the miles were not sold or bartered, and asking UA to reconsider.
But, that's up to OP.
Jan 29, 2014, 6:41 pm
#58
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AADULtArer
Posts: 5,681
Wonder if they were upset when they discovered that the miles still belonged to the airline ??
Jan 29, 2014, 6:42 pm
#59
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AADULtArer
Posts: 5,681
UA, like all carriers, writes its rules broadly and then enforces them selectively. I strongly suspect, but nobody can be certain, that UA could care less about people "managing" their immediate relatives' accounts or their executive assistant using their password.
But, this had all the makings of a commercial operation and it got shut down.
OP doesn't believe that it's worth his time to write in to UA with an explanation. I find that very odd. I have no idea what UA's security folks will do, but I can't imagine not sending in a webform acknowledging the error, noting that no other violations took place, e.g., the miles were not sold or bartered, and asking UA to reconsider.
But, that's up to OP.
But, this had all the makings of a commercial operation and it got shut down.
OP doesn't believe that it's worth his time to write in to UA with an explanation. I find that very odd. I have no idea what UA's security folks will do, but I can't imagine not sending in a webform acknowledging the error, noting that no other violations took place, e.g., the miles were not sold or bartered, and asking UA to reconsider.
But, that's up to OP.
Do MP annual fees count towards PDQ ?
Jan 29, 2014, 7:26 pm
#60
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372
Have any of these 'rules' ever been tested in countries with actual consumer protection laws rather than in the US? It seems hard to believe you could get away with such arbitrary consumer contracts under EU regulations.