MP Accounts Closed by UA Alleging Fraud/Misuse
Jan 27, 2022, 8:38 pm
#1861
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: TOA
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott LTPP/Platinum Premier, Hyatt Lame-ist, UA !K
Posts: 20,061
"Without more details it is hard to offer advice" - it's pretty straightforward - upgrades were applied to others' flights with compensation.
"Feigning non-awareness of the rules has not work." - I am guessing this was said dozens of times and finds no sympathy here but I truly wasn't aware of the fact it is a formal policy violation with such severe consequences.
I don't understand that it is AND, at the same time, there are literally dozens and dozens of listings on eBay offering upgrades. I can guarantee you non of the sellers are aware of the consequences, why would anyone do that?? It almost feels like United is purposely not making this rule and their 'Punishment' very well known. They'd rather just keep cancelling people and taking away miles. If their objective was to stop this, they'd simply publicize the rules and the consequences.
"Feigning non-awareness of the rules has not work." - I am guessing this was said dozens of times and finds no sympathy here but I truly wasn't aware of the fact it is a formal policy violation with such severe consequences.
I don't understand that it is AND, at the same time, there are literally dozens and dozens of listings on eBay offering upgrades. I can guarantee you non of the sellers are aware of the consequences, why would anyone do that?? It almost feels like United is purposely not making this rule and their 'Punishment' very well known. They'd rather just keep cancelling people and taking away miles. If their objective was to stop this, they'd simply publicize the rules and the consequences.
David
Jan 27, 2022, 8:41 pm
#1862
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,116
The people who have tried and failed probably don't visit this forum any more, so you're stuck with us.
Jan 27, 2022, 8:41 pm
#1863
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: TOA
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott LTPP/Platinum Premier, Hyatt Lame-ist, UA !K
Posts: 20,061
Go for it:
David
. Would be great to hear from 'them' though
Disputes
- You agree that you will notify United of any dispute by submitting your concerns via the form at https://www.united.com/en/us/customercare, including a description of the nature of the dispute. Following delivery of such submission, you agree to allow United a period of sixty (60) days to provide a substantive response and to try to resolve the dispute, as limited by paragraph 2 of these Rules, prior to filing any lawsuit, arbitration, administrative or any other proceeding against United related to the dispute. COMPLIANCE WITH THE NOTIFICATION PROCEDURES SET FORTH HEREIN SHALL BE A CONDITION PRECEDENT TO YOUR RIGHT TO FILE ANY LAWSUIT, ARBITRATION, ADMINISTRATIVE OR ANY OTHER PROCEEDING AGAINST UNITED. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THE NOTIFICATION PROCEDURES SET FORTH HEREIN PRIOR TO FILING A LAWSUIT, ARBITRATION, ADMINISTRATIVE OR OTHER PROCEEDING AGAINST UNITED SHALL ENTITLE UNITED TO RECOVER REASONABLE ATTORNEYS’ FEES INCURRED IN DEFENDING THE LAWSUIT, ARBITRATION, ADMINISTRATIVE OR ANY OTHER PROCEEDING.
David
Jan 27, 2022, 8:44 pm
#1865
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,742
They no longer are here as they are no longer users of MP benefits due to their actions.
Jan 27, 2022, 8:48 pm
#1866
Join Date: Jan 2022
Programs: Marriott, Southwest
Posts: 5
Jan 27, 2022, 9:00 pm
#1867
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
That essentially makes it game over. You can always plead your case with whoever notified you but I suspect they don't take these closures lightly - as in, not a 1 time occurrence and they see a track record. Let us know how it turns out.
Jan 27, 2022, 9:03 pm
#1868
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,784
They do publicize the rules.
https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...and-terms.html
“The sale, barter or other transfer or attempted sale, barter or other transfer of any mileage, certificates, PlusPoints, awards, benefits or status, other than as authorized and/or sponsored by United, is expressly prohibited. Any mileage, certificates, PlusPoints, awards, benefits or status sold, bartered or otherwise transferred is in violation of the rules and any accounts or members involved in such sales, barters or other transfers may be subject to United’s Remedies. The acquisition, use, transfer or attempted acquisition, use or transfer of mileage, certificates, awards, benefits or status that have been acquired by purchase, barter or other transfer in violation of the rules may result in United’s exercise of United’s Remedies.”
It’s been a while since I had the option of upgrading another passenger who wasn’t on my itinerary (during the days of systemwide regional upgrades, when I was a 1K), but I vaguely recall that the upgrade flow had a warning about sales of upgrades. Not sure if that’s still there.For what it’s worth, pretty much all airlines have the same rules against sales of miles and upgrades, so if you change to another program, don’t make the same mistake again.
Jan 27, 2022, 9:06 pm
#1869
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: None - previously UA
Posts: 4,855
Zero chance they budge. The deterrent loses all effectiveness if they do.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jan 27, 2022 at 9:15 pm Reason: merged consecutive posts by same member
Jan 27, 2022, 9:11 pm
#1870
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
Jan 27, 2022, 9:27 pm
#1871
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 14,876
…I am guessing this was said dozens of times and finds no sympathy here but I truly wasn't aware of the fact it is a formal policy violation with such severe consequences.
I don't understand that it is AND, at the same time, there are literally dozens and dozens of listings on eBay offering upgrades. I can guarantee you non of the sellers are aware of the consequences, why would anyone do that?? It almost feels like United is purposely not making this rule and their 'Punishment' very well known. They'd rather just keep cancelling people and taking away miles. If their objective was to stop this, they'd simply publicize the rules and the consequences.
I don't understand that it is AND, at the same time, there are literally dozens and dozens of listings on eBay offering upgrades. I can guarantee you non of the sellers are aware of the consequences, why would anyone do that?? It almost feels like United is purposely not making this rule and their 'Punishment' very well known. They'd rather just keep cancelling people and taking away miles. If their objective was to stop this, they'd simply publicize the rules and the consequences.
UA does have the terms of MP membership available, and I get a warning once every year at login (for me, it around March) where before I can continue, I have to agree I’ve seen them (there’s also a thread with someone, every year, asking what this is about, etc.). Rules are there if you want to read them. If you don’t read them, doesn’t mean you are exempt from them.
I do have to say, that while we can only help so much without details, I’m impressed that at least you are not denying wrongdoing. Most who come in here start with a story that tries to make others feel bad for them, denying they did anything wrong, and then eventually, after a bunch of prodding will finally admit what really caused it. That is not a way to get sympathy from most regulars in here, and definitely not from UA.
Jan 27, 2022, 9:30 pm
#1872
Join Date: Jan 2022
Programs: Marriott, Southwest
Posts: 5
- See, that's exactly my point, it doesn't seem like a deterrent - they don't really publicize it, I personally didn't know they do it until it happened to me. It feels very much like an entrapment, not a deterrent.
Jan 27, 2022, 9:41 pm
#1873
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,742
What is considered to be entrapment?
In other words, entrapment typically occurs when law enforcement agents induce an innocent person to commit a crime they otherwise wouldn't commit. Common entrapment techniques include persuasion, threats, harassment, and fraud. The opportunity to commit a crime does not constitute entrapment..
In other words, entrapment typically occurs when law enforcement agents induce an innocent person to commit a crime they otherwise wouldn't commit. Common entrapment techniques include persuasion, threats, harassment, and fraud. The opportunity to commit a crime does not constitute entrapment..
=======================
Note the poster has hit the FT limit of 5 posts in the first 24 hours for a new poster and therefor will not be apply to reply for 24 hours.
And please do not open a new user account as that is a violation of FT rules.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Jan 27, 2022, 9:48 pm
#1874
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
Regardless - not knowing the rule is generally not a defense but you can always fall on your sword and give it your best shot. We've all accepted the MileagePlus terms and conditions whether or not one reads them or not.
Jan 27, 2022, 9:51 pm
#1875
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,761
It should be common knowledge that selling a benefit from a loyalty program to other people in place of the airline selling them the same thing themselves would make the business angry.
Sorry you had to learn the hard way.
