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MP Accounts Closed by UA Alleging Fraud/Misuse

MP Accounts Closed by UA Alleging Fraud/Misuse

Old Jan 14, 2020, 2:59 pm
  #1501  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,459
Originally Posted by lovestache
United 1k and GS members continue to sell these on craigslist. How does it matter to united if the gpu is given away vs cash?
If you look through this thread history, those $99 upgrades are likely honeypots (UA security pretending to sell. Whoever buys them won't be treated nicely) or tempting people like you into selling

No, it's not entrapment


How did you get caught via Craigslist anyways? uA posing as a buyer? You don't think they're doing the same for the other "sellers"?

Anyways, you are at 5postlimit for newish users? Go edit your post if you feel like responding
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 3:02 pm
  #1502  
 
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Originally Posted by lovestache
I always assumed that because of the free advice thing, United was ok with these kind of transactions.
Uh-oh. I think I see where this is going.

Originally Posted by lovestache
I tried to sell the GPU because these typically go waste...wouldn't it have made sense for United to fix the problem?!
Not to go too far off-topic but UA did implment a major overhaul last year - pluspoints - that arguably addresses (note: addresses, NOT solves) this issue of upgrade certs going to waste.

Originally Posted by lovestache
If United was so concerned about sale/transfer, then wouldn't it make sense or them to a) reduce the number of GPU issued to say 4 like AA b) introduce a clause that they can only be used by the member or 2 pre-defined family members?
Why punish the majority of their customer base over a few bad apples?

Originally Posted by lovestache
United should work on a solution that works...canceling the account is a very harsh penalty...I had over 1 million miles in my account
Yeah, it is. But it's also the solution UA uses to discourage bad behavior which in turn allows for other aspects of the program to be more generous and/or less restrictive.
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 3:04 pm
  #1503  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
Programs: 1K (since 2008), *G (since 1990), 1MM
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Originally Posted by lovestache
Another one bites the dust (actually summer of last year).

The trade of GPU RPU's has been going on for a very long time. Infact I have emails buying these off craigslist back in 2006- and I'm sure it was going on long before then. I always assumed that because of the free advice thing, United was ok with these kind of transactions.

Quite frankly, I tried to sell the GPU because these typically go waste and I never seemed to get upgraded on my flights (SFO LHR etc) despite being 1k.. and also because everyone else seems to be doing it. Infact, I've seen GPU's listed for $99 in Jan timeframe when they are expiring at the end of the month. Instead of policing, wouldn't it have made sense for United to fix the problem?!

ok, I 'fess - I tried to make a few bucks instead of letting the GPU go to waste (why anyone would pay money for such a low probability to get upgraded was beyond me). If United was so concerned about sale/transfer, then wouldn't it make sense or them to a) reduce the number of GPU issued to say 4 like AA b) introduce a clause that they can only be used by the member or 2 pre-defined family members? I just did a search and can still see 10-20 ad's on craigslist trying to sell their GPU RPU. Is policing the solution - is policing working? If it was working the problem would have been solved and there would not been no more ads for these on craigslist. United should work on a solution that works.


Also, as others have mentioned, canceling the account is a very harsh penalty. Can't United pose a limitation that the GPU/RPU can only be redeemed in the name of the account holder? Most of us have been loyal United members and have been getting revenue to United (atleast $12k per year to be 1k) - in my case I have made several business trips just to earn miles.

I had over 1 million miles in my account - I never sold or attempted to sell any miles (my account balance wouldn't have been this high otherwise). I was saving these miles so I could enjoy them later .... now it feels like my retirement fund has been taken away.
I am confused. Did you know it was wrong?

Because "everyone else seemed to be doing it" you thought it was okay? You " 'fess" you tried to sell GPUs.

I have been 1K for more than 10 years and must admit for the first few years had no idea I had GPUs. Once it was explained to me to use the GPUs and not miles for upgrades (thank UA CS rep who pointed that out to me) it never occured to me to sell GPUs (or RPUs). I did give them away to friends and family.

Your post states they should reduce the number of GPUs but as someone who has generally been able to use their GPUS I disagree with that viewpoint.

I am sorry you lost the miles you were going to use for your "retirement fund" but this sounds as though you may have been thinking of selling the miles rather than flying.

Hopefully you tell more people of your tale of woe so that others like you who think just because everyone else is doing it that it must be okay will know better. There is a cost to selling GPUs/miles/points.

I do not mean to sound so unsympathetic but selling GPUs meant less upgrades for the UA frequent flyers.
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 3:11 pm
  #1504  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
Programs: UA Platinum, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,248
I upgraded a coworker using what I thought was my last GPU last year then I somehow got credit for another and ended up with Plus Points. I used some to upgrade my brother on one leg of his trip for Christmas, all other attempts to upgrade family just didn't pan out so I've got 140 Plus Points that will expire in a couple of weeks. Oh well. I would have tried to upgrade my mother and brother and my sister's family anyway, I upgraded my coworker just because the cert was expiring but it would never have occurred to me to ask for something in return. United gives us the chances at upgrades as a reward for being loyal members but nowhere do they tell us to go ahead and monetize those chances.

Instead of UA putting in hard limiters or filters to keep us from violating the rules (and possibly running afoul of the modern definition of "family"), how about we just learn to live within the spirit of the rules instead of trying to find legalistic ways to argue with them? It would have been nice to have a way to select flights where the GPU was guaranteed to work but it didn't operate that way (PLUS Points look like a way to change that under some conditions) and United never promised anything like it. It's also nice to not have airlines going bankrupt like they were some years back

As far as the "loyal members" selling their GPUs on CraigsList or eBay or whatever, I suspect a portion of those are sting operations. The rest will unfortunately have to learn the hard way the way [MENTION=10060398]lovestache[/MENTION] and others have.
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 3:24 pm
  #1505  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Welcome to FlyerTalk.

Originally Posted by lovestache
... in my case I have made several business trips just to earn miles.
I hope your computer isn't being monitored by your employer.
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 3:24 pm
  #1506  
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Originally Posted by lovestache
United 1k and GS members continue to sell these on craigslist. How does it matter to united if the gpu is given away vs cash?
Why should you profit from selling the upgrade?
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 3:31 pm
  #1507  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington, DC
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Originally Posted by TomMM
Why should you profit from selling the upgrade?
I don't think it's obviously wrong, it's just contrary to the rules of the program.

If I get something for free from some other loyalty program, or just as a part of a purchase (say a free sandwich or a gift card) there's usually no restriction on my selling that benefit and nothing makes doing so wrong.

United has rules that say it's not permitted, which they're entitled to do. But if they didn't have those rules why would it be wrong to profit from upgrades that they grant you but you can't use?
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 5:11 pm
  #1508  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM
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If UA is cunning enough to monitor eBay/Craigslist and set up all these fake buyers (and possibly sellers), what's from stopping them setting up fake FT accounts and posting fake stories in this thread?
I must admit, I don't always believe these "confession" posts.

Also, with the advent of PlusPoints, hasn't this issue gone away? Or are people now trying to sell PlusPoints?
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 5:19 pm
  #1509  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Originally Posted by narvik
If UA is cunning enough to monitor eBay/Craigslist and set up all these fake buyers (and possibly sellers), what's from stopping them setting up fake FT accounts and posting fake stories in this thread?
I must admit, I don't always believe these "confession" posts.

Also, with the advent of PlusPoints, hasn't this issue gone away? Or are people now trying to sell PlusPoints?
Ha! Hadn't even thought about fake FT accounts. I was confused by the "confession" by the most recent poster.

I had assumed less scrupulous people were going to try and sell PlusPoints just like people sold GPUs and RPUs but have not actually looked to see if there is a market.

I am still reeling at the thought of fake FT accounts!
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 5:22 pm
  #1510  
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Originally Posted by narvik
If UA is cunning enough to monitor eBay/Craigslist and set up all these fake buyers (and possibly sellers), what's from stopping them setting up fake FT accounts and posting fake stories in this thread?
Nothing, but if you believe that both are true, then all you're really saying is that the fake stories would tend to inflate their detection rate.

Originally Posted by narvik
Also, with the advent of PlusPoints, hasn't this issue gone away? Or are people now trying to sell PlusPoints?
People will certainly try to sell PlusPoints. Why not? I mean, if they were going to sell GPUs, they'll sell PlusPoints too.
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 5:39 pm
  #1511  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 2,442
Originally Posted by lovestache
United 1k and GS members continue to sell these on craigslist. How does it matter to united if the gpu is given away vs cash?



Do a search on craigslist - there are about 20 loyal members selling GPUs. And this is just in one metro area

Shouldn't united be focused on making money by keeping their loyal members instead of canceling their accounts? Also, the increased spend to police the program. Instead, wouldn't it make sense to create a program that doesn't require policing?
Are you asking United to put in restrictions on people giving away points to friends, co-workers, and relatives, to protect the people like you who are unable to exercise self-restraint and follow the clear terms and conditions that prohibit you from selling them? It’s an interesting idea, but I think penalizing the thousands of members who are following the rules and going after the few who aren’t makes more sense for a business trying to keep their loyal customers happy.

I have been 1K or GS for going on 8 years now and have never had a single instrument expire unused (and many years I earn WAY more than the base amount). I certainly wouldn’t appreciate further restrictions put in place to fight against fraud.
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 6:12 pm
  #1512  
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Originally Posted by lovestache
How does it matter to united if the gpu is given away vs cash?
Seriously?

Because if people are willing to pay cash for an upgrade, UA WANTS THAT CASH.
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 6:31 pm
  #1513  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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Originally Posted by jsloan
People will certainly try to sell PlusPoints. Why not? I mean, if they were going to sell GPUs, they'll sell PlusPoints too.
Yeah, of course you're right.
Just seems that 60 PlusPoints seems a little less "marketable" than one GPU 'certificate'.
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 6:35 pm
  #1514  
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Originally Posted by lovestache
...I just did a search and can still see 10-20 ad's on craigslist trying to sell their GPU RPU...
...and each one is a violation of UA’s Mileage Plus rules which you agree to abide by. You alone are 100% responsible for your actions, the loss of account and miles, not some Craigslist sellers.

Not sure what part of “...cannot be sold or bartered” is unclear. “Loss of miles and closing of account” is pretty clear, too.

Your proposal to limit upgrades to family members so as to avoid fraud hurts those who abide by the rules. Nope, keep it like it is - flexibility for those who abide by the rules and severe penalties for those who won’t.

Last edited by IAH-OIL-TRASH; Jan 14, 2020 at 6:43 pm
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Old Jan 14, 2020, 6:40 pm
  #1515  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 171
Ive lurked these pages for years and the defacto purpose of the site seems to maximize/game the loyalty programs.

Originally Posted by Aussienarelle
Ha! Hadn't even thought about fake FT accounts. I was confused by the "confession" by the most recent poster.

I had assumed less scrupulous people were going to try and sell PlusPoints just like people sold GPUs and RPUs but have not actually looked to see if there is a market.

I am still reeling at the thought of fake FT accounts!
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Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jan 14, 2020 at 7:08 pm Reason: Discuss the issue, not the poster(s)
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