F seat poached by disabled passenger

Old Jan 23, 14, 3:43 pm
  #151  
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth
Programs: UA 1K/MM refugee to cheapest business class fare, SPG Lifetime Plat, CBP Global Entry, #datelife
Posts: 50,103
Originally Posted by alex_b View Post
So you'd rather miss a 6 hour flight (and potentially an overnight delay) rather than put up with an hour in Y? Whatever the rights or wrongs (and I agree the OP was wronged) that seems to me rather like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

In addition as the OP was upgraded if they missed their connection they may not have been in F for the transcon flight either.
Right. This is why I asked if the op would feel differently on paid F than an upgrade. As an F passenger I do t sweat losing upgrades on mis connects. I get re-accommodated into F.

As for delaying the flight, I can't imagine it taking longer than, what, 3 minutes MAX to move even the feeblist crazy lady from row 2 to row 18 on a Regional jet. 3 minutes so a crazy lady doesn't eat the steak off my plate is a very reasonable sacrifice. And if I remember the op correctly they left 20 mins late anyway. 20 mins. Sitting there at the gate staring at the hot dog in my hand while the crazy lady ate the steak I paid for?

Not ever.
kokonutz is offline  
Old Jan 23, 14, 4:27 pm
  #152  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,323
Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
Right. This is why I asked if the op would feel differently on paid F than an upgrade. As an F passenger I do t sweat losing upgrades on mis connects. I get re-accommodated into F.

As for delaying the flight, I can't imagine it taking longer than, what, 3 minutes MAX to move even the feeblist crazy lady from row 2 to row 18 on a Regional jet. 3 minutes so a crazy lady doesn't eat the steak off my plate is a very reasonable sacrifice. And if I remember the op correctly they left 20 mins late anyway. 20 mins. Sitting there at the gate staring at the hot dog in my hand while the crazy lady ate the steak I paid for?

Not ever.
Knowing UX crews I suspect 10+ minutes is a more reasonable estimate of the time taken to move the seat poacher, they're not known for being proactive. Even longer if she decides she needs assistance to be moved.

It's interesting that you'd rather have a misconnect (even with re-accomadation) than an hour in Y. Personally I'd rather spend 2-3 hours in a middle E- seat than an extra 2+ hours in an airport. I'd be angry about it, sure, but at the end of the day I'd rather get where I'm going than miss a connection to make a point.
alex_b is offline  
Old Jan 23, 14, 5:29 pm
  #153  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sacramento
Programs: UA 2MM/GS; SPG Lifetime Plat; MHC Lifetime; Tar Heel forever; and I "Dig the Pig" at Piggly Wiggly
Posts: 12,096
Karma will be yours, OP!
kevinsac is offline  
Old Jan 23, 14, 7:54 pm
  #154  
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth
Programs: UA 1K/MM refugee to cheapest business class fare, SPG Lifetime Plat, CBP Global Entry, #datelife
Posts: 50,103
Originally Posted by alex_b View Post

It's interesting that you'd rather have a misconnect (even with re-accomadation) than an hour in Y. Personally I'd rather spend 2-3 hours in a middle E- seat than an extra 2+ hours in an airport. I'd be angry about it, sure, but at the end of the day I'd rather get where I'm going than miss a connection to make a point.
It's just that I absolutely refuse to concede that my wanting to sit in the seat I paid for would result in a substantial delay.

But if it did, so be it.

I don't negotiate with seat kidnappers.
kokonutz is offline  
Old Jan 23, 14, 8:39 pm
  #155  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC, LON
Programs: *
Posts: 2,033
Originally Posted by jon0 View Post
It's been two days since the original incident. No word yet from UA.

I am a horrible person for having given up something I didn't really care for in the first place
Really? So if you don't care for it, why didn't you decline upgrade and just choose a seat in Y? Even with your tight connection, sitting at front of plane is not something you care for?
ani90 is offline  
Old Jan 23, 14, 9:43 pm
  #156  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 3,439
Enabling Behavior.

The poacher knew exactly what she was doing. Instead of apologizing or acting confused, she literally begged OP for the seat, telling us that she had done this many times before and been rewarded.

OP's actions will no doubt cause headaches for some future poaching victim because the poacher has been rewarded for her behavior, and is expecting a positive result from her scam.

The FAs were handling the situation and OP cut them off at the knees.
No good deed goes unpunished it seems.
zombietooth is offline  
Old Jan 23, 14, 10:03 pm
  #157  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Here and there
Programs: General member, former 1P
Posts: 582
Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
Who in their right mind would pay an F fare and sit in Y except under extraordinary circumstances and with compensation?

That's like paying for a steak and being served a hot dog. Because some crazy lady wants your steak!?!?!? Simply unacceptable. Period.
When I read this, my first thought was "who in their right mind would pay F fare on a Q400 flight under an hour?" My second thought was "I have never seen anyone use the word "steak" when referring to the F cabin on a Q400.

Seriously, to use your analogy: On that flight you're never getting a steak. You may be paying steak prices on a paid F fare, but you definitely know ahead of time that you're getting a hot dog. (Meanwhile the people on that flight in Y paid hot dog prices but got only a bun.)



Originally Posted by LilAbner View Post
To each their own, and I OWN the seat that I was assigned, PERIOD!!!
To paraphrase the peerless James Tolkan in "Top Gun," you don't own that seat. The shareholders do. The airline assigns you to a seat - it's called a "seat assignment," not a "seat lease" or a "seat deed of title." The airline or its designee may change that assignment for any reason or for no reason at all.

If the flight attendant decided reseating the poacher just wasn't worth the hassle and told the OP to go sit in Y, that is completely within his discretion. You might be entitled to compensation later, depending on the situation. And the employee might get in trouble later for possibly violating an internal policy. But in the moment you're on the aircraft, there is no reliable appellate process. Maybe the FA will get the GA, maybe not. Maybe the GA will get a supervisor, maybe not. Maybe the pilot will get involved, maybe not.

There's a lot of tough talk about "I would never let that happen." Maybe you would have pressured the FA more to deal with the situation, and that's fine. But never forget that the airline decides where you sit. Your only decision is whether you are going to fly in the seat assigned to you or stay home.


Originally Posted by jon0 View Post
Incidentally, while the FAs did not specifically ask me to move (nor do I think it would be appropriate for an FA to appear to side with the other passenger by asking outright) his non-verbal expressions served to communicate to me "Get me out of this awkward situation."
And this is why the OP is a mensch. Being a regional FA is a crummy, low-paying job. Should the FA have been so hands-off? Absolutely not. Did the OP do the FA a solid by defusing the confrontation and making the FA's life easier? You bet. So many flyers take up adversarial positions with every human at the airport - gate agents, flight attendants, bartenders, other passengers. In this instance, the OP saw fit to help out the FA and save him from dealing with a potential mess.
flavorflav is offline  
Old Jan 23, 14, 11:03 pm
  #158  
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth
Programs: UA 1K/MM refugee to cheapest business class fare, SPG Lifetime Plat, CBP Global Entry, #datelife
Posts: 50,103
Originally Posted by flavorflav View Post
When I read this, my first thought was "who in their right mind would pay F fare on a Q400 flight under an hour?" My second thought was "I have never seen anyone use the word "steak" when referring to the F cabin on a Q400.

Seriously, to use your analogy: On that flight you're never getting a steak. You may be paying steak prices on a paid F fare, but you definitely know ahead of time that you're getting a hot dog. (Meanwhile the people on that flight in Y paid hot dog prices but got only a bun.)
Ok, so why in the hell would I accept a bun when I paid for a hot dog!?

That's just crazy.

To paraphrase the peerless James Tolkan in "Top Gun," you don't own that seat. The shareholders do. The airline assigns you to a seat - it's called a "seat assignment," not a "seat lease" or a "seat deed of title." The airline or its designee may change that assignment for any reason or for no reason at all.

If the flight attendant decided reseating the poacher just wasn't worth the hassle and told the OP to go sit in Y, that is completely within his discretion. You might be entitled to compensation later, depending on the situation. And the employee might get in trouble later for possibly violating an internal policy. But in the moment you're on the aircraft, there is no reliable appellate process. Maybe the FA will get the GA, maybe not. Maybe the GA will get a supervisor, maybe not. Maybe the pilot will get involved, maybe not.

There's a lot of tough talk about "I would never let that happen." Maybe you would have pressured the FA more to deal with the situation, and that's fine. But never forget that the airline decides where you sit. Your only decision is whether you are going to fly in the seat assigned to you or stay home.
This is a bizarre argument. The airline doesn't decide where I sit. I do. I pay for a seat in my ticketed cabin. If some crazy lady decides to try to steal that from me, I say not just "no," but 'HELL NO.' Just like if a crazy lady tried to steal my meal at a restaurant. I really don't give a crap what the waiter says. Or the waterboy. Give me the meal I paid for and get this crazy lady out of my meal. NOW.

And this is why the OP is a mensch. Being a regional FA is a crummy, low-paying job. Should the FA have been so hands-off? Absolutely not. Did the OP do the FA a solid by defusing the confrontation and making the FA's life easier? You bet. So many flyers take up adversarial positions with every human at the airport - gate agents, flight attendants, bartenders, other passengers. In this instance, the OP saw fit to help out the FA and save him from dealing with a potential mess.
Oh hell no. If a crazy person demanded the meal I paid for at a restaurant, I don't give a rat's arse about how the waiter feels. He or she better give me my meal or I will see that they are fired. But in this case the waiter was trying to resolve the situation to the satisfaction of the patron who paid for the meal. So on this I totally agree with:

Originally Posted by zombietooth
The FAs were handling the situation and OP cut them off at the knees.
No good deed goes unpunished it seems.
Bottom line: show the crew your boarding pass, stand back and let them resolve the situation. No need to get involved.

Last edited by kokonutz; Jan 23, 14 at 11:08 pm
kokonutz is offline  
Old Jan 23, 14, 11:13 pm
  #159  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 8,634
Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
That's just crazy.
What's crazy, to borrow from a poster above, is cutting off your nose to spite your face. You need to learn about the dangers of thinking in sunk costs.

Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
He or she better give me my meal or I will see that they are fired.
My grandfather gets a lot of people "fired." I'm sure they and their bosses have a good laugh about it after.
mgcsinc is offline  
Old Jan 24, 14, 2:03 am
  #160  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 41
Clearly OP was working with the woman to scam compensation from United

Christian
chris1234 is offline  
Old Jan 24, 14, 2:14 am
  #161  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: LAS HNL
Programs: DL DM, 5.7 MM, UA 3.1 MM, MARRIOTT PLATINUM, AVIS FIRST, Amex Black Card
Posts: 4,479
I was that "poacher". Did you order your eggs scrambled? How was the flt in Y?

The FA's were bowing to me the entire flt on how well I pulled this off. I actually ordered my eggs sunny side up.

Thank you. I enjoyed every minute sitting in your assigned seat. Next time I will order an omelet or the steak and eggs. This of course after the Lox service comes gliding by. I hope you still made your connection. Hope to see you on future flts. Damn another shooting pain in my lower back. 2B next flt. Seat purchased 17C.
kettle1 is offline  
Old Jan 24, 14, 2:25 am
  #162  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ZOA, SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K 0.9MM, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Hertz PC, SBux Gold, TSA Pre✓
Posts: 10,928
It will be interesting if we can ask Mod and vote for our options.

I think it is enough for the OP.
garykung is offline  
Old Jan 24, 14, 2:39 am
  #163  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: LAS HNL
Programs: DL DM, 5.7 MM, UA 3.1 MM, MARRIOTT PLATINUM, AVIS FIRST, Amex Black Card
Posts: 4,479
Originally Posted by garykung View Post
I think it is enough for the OP.
Bottom line. I did not "Poach" a seat from the OP, but NEVER EVER give up a seat in FC and move to Y. That poacher needs to sit in the assigned seat given to her. If it were me, I would have been in my assigned seat and have enjoyed the "grand service" of sitting in FC on the "new UA".
kettle1 is offline  
Old Jan 24, 14, 7:20 am
  #164  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC, LON
Programs: *
Posts: 2,033
Originally Posted by flavorflav View Post
When I read this, my first thought was "who in their right mind would pay F fare on a Q400 flight under an hour?"
Most people travelling in F on such flights, I suspect are doing so as part of a larger itinerary. Many international C customers start at smaller airports and need regional jets to connect to the main flight.

The OP said he used an RPU so I presume he did not use it just for this segment (which he says he doesn't care about sitting in F anyway) so maybe he was heading on a transcon or the like.
ani90 is offline  
Old Jan 24, 14, 10:13 am
  #165  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Here and there
Programs: General member, former 1P
Posts: 582
Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
Ok, so why in the hell would I accept a bun when I paid for a hot dog!? That's just crazy.
Let me give your analogy another try. On a short Q400 flight, everyone is getting plain hot dogs - it doesn't matter if you paid the steak price or the hot dog price. F cabin passengers are still getting a hot dog, just maybe a jumbo hot dog with mustard. I understand there's a principle involved - you paid steak prices, so by G-d you should get a steak. But we've both been in F on Q400s on short hops and we both know that the "steak" is really "a Heineken, a banana and a package of almonds."

Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
This is a bizarre argument. The airline doesn't decide where I sit. I do. I pay for a seat in my ticketed cabin. If some crazy lady decides to try to steal that from me, I say not just "no," but 'HELL NO.' Just like if a crazy lady tried to steal my meal at a restaurant. I really don't give a crap what the waiter says. Or the waterboy. Give me the meal I paid for and get this crazy lady out of my meal. NOW.

Oh hell no. If a crazy person demanded the meal I paid for at a restaurant, I don't give a rat's arse about how the waiter feels. He or she better give me my meal or I will see that they are fired. But in this case the waiter was trying to resolve the situation to the satisfaction of the patron who paid for the meal.
Saying it loudly doesn't make it true. You do not decide where you sit. The airline does. It's their airplane. You can decide whether or not you fly, but ultimately you're sitting where you are told to sit.

Following your restaurant analogy, you may own the food but you don't own the table and chairs. The restaurant does. You'll sit where the restaurant tells you to sit or you'll dine elsewhere. (Please set aside that restaurants that treated its patrons as shabbily as UA customarily does would go out of business in a month.)


Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
Bottom line: show the crew your boarding pass, stand back and let them resolve the situation. No need to get involved.
I think we agree that it's up to the FA to seat passengers properly and not the responsibility of the passenger. A better FA would have ensured that the poacher was seated in her assigned Y seat and that the OP was properly seated in his assigned F seat. But discretion is sometimes the better part of valor, and in this case the OP chose to not press the matter.

Last edited by flavorflav; Jan 24, 14 at 10:14 am Reason: Clarity
flavorflav is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: