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Old Jan 12, 2014, 3:56 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This thread is for posting about how the PQDs for particular flown segments post to the United website. How many PQDs posted for a particular segment, the timing of the posting, and similar issues belong here.

For a more general discussion and Q&A about PQDs, use this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ad-2014-a.html

How many PQDs will post for each segment?

We're still trying to figure that out! In general, though, here's how it's supposed to work: For each fare* in your itinerary, the PQDs (airfare + YQ) for that fare will be distributed across the segments associated with that fare using an "industry standard" method that is opaque.

*Airline tickets are generally priced all the way from your origin to your destination as a single one-way or half-round-trip fare. For example, if you fly LAX-SFO-EWR-LHR-FRA//FRA-IAD-DEN-LAX, there will usually be a single half-rount-trip fare associated with the entire outbound trip, and a single half-round-trip fare associated with the entire return trip. In general, you do not pay a specific price for each segment of your trip. Understanding this simple idea is fundamental to understanding how airfare is priced. Sometimes, though, your trip will be made up of several fares all tacked together. For example, it could be that the return trip in the above example is constructed as FRA-IAD-DEN//DEN-LAX. In this case, the fare is said to "break" at DEN. It is essential to know where fare breaks occur in your itinerary in order to predict/explain PQD earnings for each segment. (You should probably learn how this stuff works anyway, because it can help you understand why some tickets cost more than others, where you can put in a free stopover, etc.)

What is the most helpful way for me to report the PQD breakdown for a trip I took?

If you want to contribute the most information possible, post the PQDs associated with each segment of your trip, and post the full fare construction of your trip.

To see the fare construction, go to the Saudi Airlines website, click on "Manage Bookings," click "eTicket," and enter your ticket number (beginning with 016). There's also a browser extension/script available to ease the Saudia link/searching: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...-analysis.html.

A few notes on how contract fares can be negotiated per daniellam:
Having used bulk and corporate negotiated fare tickets in the past and being familiar with the the various ticketing methods used by travel agencies, the following are three methods which I have observed and each have their own implications in terms of accounting/reimbursement by the travel agency and their corporate client ("employer") as well as the earning of PQDs.

In each of these scenarios, we will assume the following (ignoring taxes and other fees the corporate travel agency may add on top):

- The regular published fare before corporate discount is $1,000
- Negotiated corporate fare contract allows the fare to be sold for $750 (travel agent keeps $50) with the net fare being $700.
- Payment method is credit card in all cases, and the employee buying the ticket is reimbursed for the amount charged to the credit card.

Method 1 - Published Fare with Commission Method (only if contract allows this method to be used)

Fare on e-ticket receipt shows: $1,000 (this can be pulled up on united.com)

"Commission" claimed when ticket issued: $300 (travel agent keeps $50) [A special corporate code is entered onto the e-ticket]

What the e-ticket looks like to the passenger: Looks just just any other e-ticket that was purchased directly from United Airlines, with the exception of a code in the "tour code" field (not normally visible on united.com).

Invoice from travel agency shows: $1,000

Payment flow:

1) Passenger is charged $1,000 on his corporate AMEX (merchant on credit card bill shows up as "United Airilnes") and the employer reimburses him $1,000 once an expense report is completed.

2) Travel Agency receives $300 "commission" from the airline and keeps $50.

3) Travel Agency cuts a check to the employer for $250.

End result: The employer pays $1,000 less $250 for a net of $750. (Note: The employer may bill the client $1,000 for the employee's travel if they can get away with it).

PQD Earned: $1,000

Implications: More accounting work needs to be done by travel agency to determine how much to pay the employer. Employer needs to pay the published fare and wait for the "rebate" from the travel agency.

Method 2 - Published Fare with Corporate Discount (only if contract allows this method to be used)

Fare on e-ticket receipt shows: $750 (this can be pulled up on united.com)

[A "ticket designator" is added to the fare basis (eg. QUP14QPN/CORP) where as an example "CORP" is the ticket designator to denote "corporate fare")]

"Commission" claimed when ticket issued: $50 (travel agent keeps $50) [A special corporate code is entered onto the e-ticket as well]

What the e-ticket looks like to the passenger: Looks just just any other e-ticket that was purchased directly from United Airlines, with the exception of a code in the "tour code" field, "ticket designator" (not normally visible on united.com) and of course a lower fare than what it would have been if purchased on united.com.

Invoice from travel agency shows: $750

Payment flow:

1) Passenger is charged $750 on his corporate AMEX (merchant on credit card bill shows up as "United Airilnes") and the employer reimburses him $750 once an expense report is completed.

2) Travel Agency receives $50 "commission" from the airline and keeps $50.

End result: The employer pays a net fare of $750. (Note: The employer may only be able to bill the client $750 in this case).

PQD Earned: $750

Implications: Less accounting work needs to be done by travel agency. Employer does not need to wait for "rebate", but can only bill the client the fare less corporate discount.

Method 3A - Bulk Ticketing with "credit card" as form of payment (perhaps this method seems to be the easiest to use when automated online booking tools such as Concur are used to automatically quote fares/issue tickets as only the "bulk" fare between specified city pairs need to be loaded into the system instead of having to program a bunch of specialized ticketing instructions into the system for each corporate contract???)

Fare on e-ticket receipt shows: "BULK" or "BT" or "IT" (this can be pulled up on united.com)

[Note: When the travel agent issues the ticket, $750 is entered as the fare with a "BULK"/"BT"/"IT" flag added so that the fare dosen't show up on the ticket. This results in the fare amount being transmitted only the the revenue accounting department of the airline, while other staff at the airline don't see the price]

"Commission" claimed when ticket issued: $50 (travel agent keeps $50) [A special corporate code is entered onto the e-ticket as well]

What the e-ticket looks like to the passenger: "BULK" / "BT" / "IT" in fare box, as well as a fare basis that may either be that of a published fare or an obscure one such as "YBULK".

Invoice from travel agency shows: $750

Payment flow:

1) Passenger is charged $750 on his corporate AMEX (merchant on credit card bill shows up as "United Airilnes") and the employer reimburses him $750 once an expense report is completed.

2) Travel Agency receives $50 "commission" from the airline and keeps $50.

End result: The employer pays a net fare of $750. (Note: The employer may only be able to bill the client $750).

PQD Earned: $0 [Because United dosen't know how much was actually paid without referring to their revenue accounting department]

Implications: Minimal accounting work needs to be done by travel agency. Employer does not need to wait for rebate. Employee does not get PQD.

Method 3B - Bulk Ticketing with "Cash" or "Invoice" as form of payment (even though payment is by credit card)

Fare on e-ticket receipt shows: "BULK" or "BT" or "IT" (this can be pulled up on united.com)

[Note: When the travel agent issues the ticket, $700 is entered as the fare with a "BULK"/"BT"/"IT" flag added so that the fare dosen't show up on the ticket. This results in the fare amount being transmitted only the the revenue accounting department of the airline, while other staff at the airline don't see the price]

"Commission" claimed when ticket issued: $0

What the e-ticket looks like to the passenger: "BULK" / "BT" / "IT" in fare box, as well as a fare basis that may either be that of a published fare or an obscure one such as "YBULK".

Invoice from travel agency shows: $750 (note the agent is basically selling that $700 ticket for $750)

Payment flow:

1) Passenger is charged $750 on his corporate AMEX (merchant on credit card bill shows up as "AMERICAN EXPRESS TRAVEL" instead of "United Airlines") and the employer reimburses him $750 once an expense report is completed.

End result: The employer pays a net fare of $750. (Note: The employer may only be able to bill the client $750).

PQD Earned: $0 [Because United dosen't know how much was actually paid without referring to their revenue accounting department]

Implications: Minimal accounting work needs to be done by travel agency. Employer does not need to wait for rebate. Employee does not get PQD.
Voucher impact on PQDs is covered in Vouchers in the PQD era
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It Begins: PQDs Posting on United.com

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Old Mar 21, 2014, 12:07 pm
  #616  
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Originally Posted by zabes64
I don't understand why people are not just filing a DOT complaint when they are not given the PQDs they actually deserve.. MileagePlus program is covered under the DOT, if everyone that got screwed over by PQD inaccuracies filed a DOT complaint UA would get that fixed right away.

I know people will flame this by saying the DOT is not for that, but they do track frequent flyer program complaints, in the March report there were a total of 18 frequent flyer related complaints for January 2014.

At least people wasting all this time going back and forth can submit their complaint, what they are owed, what they didn't get and let the DOT send it to UA HQ to be resolved.
FF programs are outside DOT's brief and DOT will not get involved in any enforcement action regarding FF programs. They will categorize and pass on to the airline those complaints. IMO it is a waste for tax payer funds to involve the DOT in these non-relevant issues.
Understand folks well placed angry with UA but flooding a important government channel with no relevant issues is a misuse of the process.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 12:07 pm
  #617  
 
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Originally Posted by zabes64
I don't understand why people are not just filing a DOT complaint when they are not given the PQDs they actually deserve.. MileagePlus program is covered under the DOT, if everyone that got screwed over by PQD inaccuracies filed a DOT complaint UA would get that fixed right away.

I know people will flame this by saying the DOT is not for that, but they do track frequent flyer program complaints, in the March report there were a total of 18 frequent flyer related complaints for January 2014.

At least people wasting all this time going back and forth can submit their complaint, what they are owed, what they didn't get and let the DOT send it to UA HQ to be resolved.
Probably because only the people posting here are the ones that closely track these things. The vast majority of people don't know they are being short changed or can't be bothered to spend hours trying to get the right amounts posted. For most cases, UA ends up benefiting in the short run by not posting the full amounts so they have no incentive the do anything about it. BA has the same type of problem with any ticket that gets upgraded. Always posts as ineligible. They have known about the problem for years and don't do anything about it.

Last edited by iluv2fly; Mar 21, 2014 at 1:36 pm Reason: language
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 2:03 pm
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco
Probably because only the people posting here are the ones that closely track these things. The vast majority of people don't know they are being short changed or can't be bothered to spend hours trying to get the right amounts posted.
I agree 100% with this statement and if I don't make 1K for 2015, somebody at UA is going to definitely hear about it!

YTD Premier qualifying miles: 41,729
YTD Premier qualifying segments: 33
YTD Premier qualifying dollars: $1,321
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 2:09 pm
  #619  
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Originally Posted by LilAbner
I agree 100% with this statement and if I don't make 1K for 2015, somebody at UA is going to definitely hear about it!

YTD Premier qualifying miles: 41,729
YTD Premier qualifying segments: 33
YTD Premier qualifying dollars: $1,321
If your plans are to continue has you have, I think you know the outcome already. Willn't be any surprise to you. Eventually 3MM will get you there.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 2:57 pm
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
If your plans are to continue has you have, I think you know the outcome already. Willn't be any surprise to you. Eventually 3MM will get you there.
Thanks for the advise and concerns, but I've had enough surprises from this airline, as of late, and I know how to get to 3MM'!

Since I am nearly 70 years old and I would need to spend $45,000.00 to reach 1K for life, only to have the honor of having UA change the rules for my 73rd birthday present, I think I'll still do my MR's for miles and screw their PQD program! I've got lifetime UC (unless they take that away before I'm 73 or I die), and since I don't trust these turds any farther than I can throw them, I think I'll still do it the way that has worked wonders for me since my first flight, way back when!

Yep, my plans are to continue as always, and both UA and I know the outcome. The folks on here that have their company or the government pop for their tickets will certainly be happy to know that there will be one less, but richer, 1k on the upgrade list!

Again, thanks for your reply!! ^
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 11:17 am
  #621  
 
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Update on my posting from March 20th: went back to 1Kvoice regarding ineligible PQD on flown LH flight FRA-IAD on a 016 issued ticket. The agent credited PQDs explaining the issue they have with the 016 ticket number being properly read by LH. From previous postings, it would seem UA should be able to address this. Does anyone know the status of LH and UA working this out? I'm flying this week on the same route and anticipate the same issue.

But now I have one more issue with how the PQD's are determined. When I add up the PQD's for all flights on the IAD-FRA-IST-FRA-IAD ticket, they do not match the airfare on my e-ticket receipt. The airfare I paid, as shown on the e-ticket shows 6272.00 plus $414.90 tax. The PQD's I received total $5790.00.

Is there another formula UA uses and is the 5790.00 legit? Or do I have to spend more time (this will be my 4th action on this particular ticket) to get the correct PQD's posted?

Finally, should chasing PQD's be this time consuming?
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 11:41 am
  #622  
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Originally Posted by 1kprem
....
But now I have one more issue with how the PQD's are determined. When I add up the PQD's for all flights on the IAD-FRA-IST-FRA-IAD ticket, they do not match the airfare on my e-ticket receipt. The airfare I paid, as shown on the e-ticket shows 6272.00 plus $414.90 tax. The PQD's I received total $5790.00.

Is there another formula UA uses and is the 5790.00 legit? Or do I have to spend more time (this will be my 4th action on this particular ticket) to get the correct PQD's posted? ...
Calculating PQDs can be easy or difficult. Once you have a correct breakout of the fare with all the taxes broken out, you just add base airfare and carrier surcharges. However the online pricing includes the Excise Tax (7.5%) in the airfare and not in the taxes section. The emailed receipt does show this proper broken out

The reason I mention this is the Excise Tax issue might explain the difference you are see. however without knowing what you are using to calculate your numbers, it is hard to provide more definitive advice.

More on how to calculate http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...4-edition.html

Originally Posted by 1kprem
.... Finally, should chasing PQD's be this time consuming?
If you will easily exceed the $10K threshold, then don't bother

There are clearly start up issues that hopefully will get resolved. The LH issue seems to be among the biggest. Once we get past the start issues this should be no worse that PQM tracking. The bigger issue with PQD is "qualifying flights" --- *A on non-016 tickets.
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 12:04 pm
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Dear WineCountryUA.
Thanks. The 7.5% excise is only on the base fare for domestic tickets from what I know.

I guess I will need to contact 1Kvoice again. The ticket total fare/tax matches my credit card bill. I checked the linear fare calculation ladder and the fare breakdown is M$2614.32 WAS-IST and M$3658.00 IST-WAS for a total airfare of $6272.00. Then there is the YQ surcharge of 266.00 which I'm not even including in the amount I feel I'm due. All i want is UA to show me why they decided to credit me less PQD than the airfare paid. As for the excise tax, this was an all international ticket, no domestic segments involved. I will report back with what UA says.
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 3:03 pm
  #624  
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complete and utter mess on 220 ticket stock tickets on UA metal. UA actually sent me the breakdown as LH sent it over and they allocated YQ completely wrong (e.g. to a separate end-on-end AC domestic segment which is now worth more than the TATL segment ).
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Old Mar 24, 2014, 2:39 am
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Originally Posted by shdflyer
Me, too, and on MS as well as multiple LH flights. Miles and PQM from CAI - FRA on MS posted properly but PQD says "Ineligible." I'm gonna sit this PQD mess out for a few months and wait for UA to sort this out...
This sounds familiar. I was trying to buy a couple of domestic RT tix on the MS site but verified by Visa did not like their security code or something. So I went to ual.com and was able to get the same flights for only $5 more. Quickly and easily. Miles posted but PQDs stayed "pending" a long time before going to "ineligible". First email response I got back was that MS flights are not eligible, only partner airlines or Star carriers ticketed on 016 stock.....

Not big dollars but I am wondering if we now need to track all those PQDs more carefully. Clearly we cannot rely on UA to do this.
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Old Mar 24, 2014, 5:13 am
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Apologies if this is covered already.

Just passed $10k. I know this because my account now shows PQ$ as "Over $10,000." I assumed the counter would continue for the year? It would make it easier for trying to understand how GS is calculated.
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Old Mar 24, 2014, 6:04 am
  #627  
 
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Originally Posted by CopperSteve
Apologies if this is covered already.

Just passed $10k. I know this because my account now shows PQ$ as "Over $10,000." I assumed the counter would continue for the year? It would make it easier for trying to understand how GS is calculated.
This would be a classic case of 'it's a feature, not a bug'
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Old Mar 24, 2014, 10:47 am
  #628  
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Originally Posted by CopperSteve
.... It would make it easier for trying to understand how GS is calculated.
It is not clear there is any relationship between GS qualification accounting and PQD accounting method.
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Old Mar 24, 2014, 5:06 pm
  #629  
 
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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 7_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/537.51.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0 Mobile/11D167 Safari/9537.53)

Has anyone had intl surcharge not post on PQD? I seemed to have been shorted $681 in my PQD posting for SFO-LHR, which is the carrier imposed surcharge. Do these post on the outbound flight for people?
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Old Mar 27, 2014, 4:57 am
  #630  
 
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To update my previous posting of Mar 23, UA responded to my PQD request for a LH flight FRA IST and credited me with the missing PQDs which included the YQ surcharge. Again the issue is LH's system (or some system) is dropping the zero when reading the ticket number so instead of seeing 016 it only sees 16 and thus declares the ticket ineligible.

As I have the same trip coming up this week I anticipate having the same problem.

Funny how TK on the same trip had no issues posting the miles and PQD within 3 days after the flight. I had to chase down UA to get all the LH credits.

Now one thing missing the from a TK ticket in Business class on TK stock. I know I don't get PQD but I've handed over the boarding pass and ticket yet it will take 3 weeks to investigate before miles are posted.
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