mduell

People who connect after longhaul flights.

Or sometimes before depending on what kind of day you've had.

TA

By the way, out of my own curiosity, let's do a very rough estimate of the economics of the UA clubs.

There are 42 clubs in the US. Assume that there are 5 people staffed to each, full time, year round, let's say at $100,000 cost all in for each person (on average, because some of them are fuly trained CSRs) = $500k in labor costs. Food and drink consumables run comparable to that, maybe another $500k/yr. Other operating costs, $100k/yr. That's $25m to run all the clubs each year. Not even including rent at this point. And I'm not including the costs of the overseas clubs either (which even fewer people have to pay for, but cost similar I would guess).

How many people are paying for that membership? 20,000 people, maybe? At $400 a pop? = $8m in revenue from club membership. Maybe add 50% to be safe, and add one-time day passes? I don't guess that there are more than 50,000 people with memberships.

So I estimate that the clubs are a loss leader for UA, just like AMEX, but with higher costs and higher traffic. And you're asking them to upgrade the facilities and amenities even more? How would they justify it -- especially as I doubt that the quality of UA Club contributes to anyone's decision to fly UA? For SQ, it might be another story, but not UA...

Always Flyin

You only got the abbreviated version of my mantra:

United is an airline that the courts have found knowingly defrauds its customers (Lagen v. United Cont'l Holdings, Inc., No. 14-1375 (7th Cir. 2014)) and treats those customers with utter disdain. United is an airline only for those locked into fortress hubs, those with corporate contracts (which are diminishing in number), Kayakers, and those who just don't know any better.

So you fit into the "locked into fortress hubs" category. Sorry you're stuck with United.

TA

I hate to go on a tangent, but what are you talking about with that legal citation? The decision found that United was not promising any specific level of benefits or creating a separate class of million milers in any legal responsibility sense. Unless you're quoting the dissent, which didn't apparently sway the rest of the court.

Always Flyin

That analysis is incorrect. So as not to take this thread off-topic, see:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ec-2014-a.html

gengar

Doesn't your statement contradict what TA posted? They're full, but still provide the same amenities they've always provided. The fact that they deny people due to capacity is unfortunate, but United Clubs have done the same...

TA

I'm suggesting that if the AMEX clubs had the same amount of traffic as UA clubs do, all the time, they would quickly cut the quality of their amenities. AMEX manages to provide what they do, because at the moment, these surges in traffic are rare and exceptional.

LordTentacle

LT Sr puts a legit $900k-1.1M spend through his club card per year with his very high turn over and low margin buisness

The club card is worth an extra 500k miles per year which was easily worth the $395 or whatever a year he pays for it

on topic...
The amex lounge in SFO and SYD are both Mehh to me compared to the some of the VA and NZ domestic lounges here in ANZ region

dcpdxtrans

The UC lounge @ SFO in F is weak but the agents are great; the one by the intl terminal much better (with the added bonus of being near Ebisu). The one place where I really care about lounge access is GRU. The UC there, sans food, is a very good place to be & the service for the most part very good. The centurion lounge, which we always use, is cramped, always crowded, but also appreciated since there's no alternative after landing / customs (oh, & they stopped serving coconut water there! !)

SFHokie

I wasn't referring to the "Day Pass" that people can buy, but rather a potential charge for a better experience (read: "nicer") lounge for those who are already members. If I were running things, I would not allow day passes to be purchased for that "better experience" lounge.

Off topic, but have you reviewed the list of other benefits that come with this card? Being able to access the Centurion Lounges, have Priority Pass when in other airports (which lets you into most UCs), and SPG Gold is more than worth it to me to justify the $495 yearly cost. Oh, there's no minimum spend on the card either, so finding merchants who accept Amex isn't much of a concern.

That's fine. Guess your connection times are much better than mine, and for that I envy you.

The latter definitely describes me more than the former Specifically, though, overnight flights is where I really see the shower benefits being useful. I feel nasty after sitting in the plane for 5-6 hours and freshening up before having to drive to my destination after leaving the airport and/or attending a meeting with clients would greatly help.

Apples vs. Oranges. International Lounges have different cost structures, often in terms of labor, which makes them less expensive to operate and allows the airlines to redirect those funds differently in terms of upkeep or other measures. But in general, yes, I agree the NZ lounges are nice. The Silver Kris Lounge at SYD is one of my favorites. (And their shower facilities are GREAT!)

miasmal

Also with the Plat Amex you can designate an airline (UA in this case of course) and put $200 into the Travelbank, reducing the yearly fee by that much.

SFHokie

Or use that $200 / year for on-board items like food and alcohol if you're stuck in Y. (Which happens way too much for someone who o/d in SFO...)

jgsx

USA issued Amex Platinum and Centurion cards receive Priority Pass SELECT, which do not give access to United Clubs.

SFHokie

Good catch, as I missed that one. Still not an issue since I have the Chase Club card and the AMEX Platinum and will be headed to the Centurion Lounge whenever possible.

787fan

my most frequented airport/terminal is still EWR Terminal C, so until Amex can place a Centurion lounge there, I'll continue to use UC with my Chase Club card. The Amex clubs at DFW MIA and (rumored) SEA are mostly useless for me. The ones at SFO LGA LAS has some value for me.

Now that Amex yanked the 15K bonus points for $30K spend on their Premier Rewards Gold card, I'm just on the edge between keeping the Gold or upgrading to the Amex Platinum.