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-   -   Scolded for taking a picture of the MAP?! (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1525653-scolded-taking-picture-map.html)

EWR764 Nov 27, 2013 7:11 pm


Originally Posted by kale73 (Post 21866259)
Oh, it's in Hemispheres? How is that enforceable? I know I agree to abide by the Contract of Carriage when I buy a ticket, but there's nothing in there about photography on the plane or about additional rules in regulations in the magazine. I never agreed to abide by Hemispheres.

This would fall under FAR Part 91.11, which requires passenger compliance with crewmember instructions. Stupid, yes, but the OP handled the situation perfectly by not pressing the issue with a potentially irrational FA.

FiveMileFinal Nov 27, 2013 7:41 pm

Money talks. It's the only thing these hillbillies understand.

Fly another airline that has a less paranoid, restrictive photography policy.

That is really all you can - and should - do.

Yes, it is that basic. Yes, it is that necessary.

Perhaps when United starts haemorrhaging cash to the point where they go out of business, they will wake up and see that the customers make the airline, and not the other way around.

ldsant Nov 27, 2013 7:56 pm

i'm with the other poster. Don't waste your time emailing/writing/etc. about your poor experience (seriously - why don't FAs spend more time actually providing SERVICE instead of berating a passenger?!). Fly another airline. Every day on this board people talk about their poor experience and yet they continue to give their $ to UA. Just stop flying them and spend your $ elsewhere.

84fiero Nov 27, 2013 8:00 pm


Originally Posted by EWR764 (Post 21866481)
This would fall under FAR Part 91.11, which requires passenger compliance with crewmember instructions. Stupid, yes, but the OP handled the situation perfectly by not pressing the issue with a potentially irrational FA.

FAR 91.11 prevents "assaulting, threatening, intimidating, or interfering with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated." While UA would probably point to this, among other things, it's pretty hard to see how taking a picture interferes with crew duties, in and of itself (maybe the OP was laying in the aisle to take it :D).

You may have been thinking of FAR 121.571, where it mentions "compliance with crewmember instructions" in the context of smoking, seat belt use, etc. There are other instances of similar wording in the FAR, each in the context of certain FAR requirements. FAs and the airlines sometimes abuse the terminology to imply they have broader authority than they do. A crewmember can't instruct a passenger to take his shirt off, eat broccoli, or jump up and down on one foot.:p

That said, at the end of the day I agree the OP handled it correctly. What's right sitting on the ground talking about it is one thing. What will make one's trip miserable thanks to an ego-tripping FA and a ludicrous airline rule is another!

colpuck Nov 27, 2013 8:03 pm


Originally Posted by flyerdude88 (Post 21865953)
I can't comment specifically but I know MatthewLAX had a similar issue where he was kicked off a plane for taking pictures earlier this year and it caused a huge stir. The thread is here but I'm not informed enough to add any comments

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/check...ing-photo.html

He wasn't kicked off of the plane for taking a picture, he was kicked off for getting into it with the FA.

EWR764 Nov 27, 2013 8:19 pm


Originally Posted by 84fiero (Post 21866659)
FAR 91.11 prevents "assaulting, threatening, intimidating, or interfering with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated."

No, 91.11 is the one I meant. This reg is the basis for the general notion that passengers must comply with crewmember instructions, although there are other more specific regs (see 121.171 as you point out, or 121.589, for another) which require passengers to adhere to crewmember instructions relative to a certain policy, such as those pertaining to carry on baggage.

On the other hand, there have been a number of administrative opinions finding a passenger in violation of 91.11 due to non-compliance with crewmember instructions, which can be interpreted as interference with the carriage of the crew's duties. Of course, as a Part 91 reg, it's application much broader and not limited to 121 ops. Violation of 91.11 exposes the offender to civil penalties as well. If the crewmember is enforcing United policy, that's where the potential liability comes into play.

FlyWorld Nov 27, 2013 8:23 pm


Originally Posted by colpuck (Post 21866665)
He wasn't kicked off of the plane for taking a picture, he was kicked off for getting into it with the FA.

And he got into it with the FA for taking a picture of his personal experience.

The two facts are related in important ways.

demkr Nov 27, 2013 8:43 pm

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 7_0_4 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/537.51.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0 Mobile/11B554a Safari/9537.53)

Political correctness friendly!

LaserSailor Nov 27, 2013 9:41 pm


Originally Posted by 84fiero (Post 21866659)
FAR 91.11 prevents "assaulting, threatening, intimidating, or interfering with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated." While UA would probably point to this, among other things, it's pretty hard to see how taking a picture interferes with crew duties, in and of itself (maybe the OP was laying in the aisle to take it :D).

You may have been thinking of FAR 121.571, where it mentions "compliance with crewmember instructions" in the context of smoking, seat belt use, etc. There are other instances of similar wording in the FAR, each in the context of certain FAR requirements. FAs and the airlines sometimes abuse the terminology to imply they have broader authority than they do. A crewmember can't instruct a passenger to take his shirt off, eat broccoli, or jump up and down on one foot.:p

That said, at the end of the day I agree the OP handled it correctly. What's right sitting on the ground talking about it is one thing. What will make one's trip miserable thanks to an ego-tripping FA and a ludicrous airline rule is another!

If you hassle crew members you get thrown off, simple. No "interfering with their duties or not discussion needed" if you don't like it, drive or fly private.

I can't pass this one up...

"You can't let him in here...he'll see the big Board!!!"

kale73 Nov 27, 2013 9:54 pm


Originally Posted by EWR764 (Post 21866717)
If the crewmember is enforcing United policy, that's where the potential liability comes into play.

My point is that if United wants to enforce this as a "policy" it ought to be included in the Contract of Carriage. Everything else and the kitchen sink seem to be in there; what's one more thing?

As I mentioned earlier, I don't "agree" to the inflight magazine when I purchase a ticket; I agree to the CoC, whether I read it or not.

username Nov 27, 2013 9:57 pm

Not too friendly...

I too take pictures of the flight path. I guess I better be careful.

For those of us who also take pictures of the meals, would the meal tray / plate be considered United equipment? :D

dlaz Nov 27, 2013 10:41 pm

Scolded for taking a picture of the MAP?!
 
Interesting point about the meal. What happens of you get served a rotten piece of fruit (happened to me on DL) and want to document it?

mike1968 Nov 27, 2013 10:47 pm


Originally Posted by og (Post 21866276)
How the world turns. 40 yrs ago you could have substituted SU for UA in the OP's posting. Now UA are copying the old USSR attitude to "no photography of sensitive places".

But realistically, the UA rule is to stop rogue photographing of passengers - which is understandable. Perhaps there is more to the story than "just photographing the map"?

Funny thing is a mere 15 years ago when the former USSR finally opened up Siberian airspace, I was on one of the first pmUA flights to go transpolar out of ORD (0n the 747OP no less) and the C FAs were in front and in back of me in empty window seats also taking photos as we flew over Siberia.

Only carrier I've had the no photog nonsense was Indian Airlines as we passed Everest on way to IXB which doubles, or did, as a military base.

asphaltman Nov 27, 2013 10:54 pm

I was flying on a 787 up front in 1 and was taking all sorts of pics, the blue lighting in the middle center console thing was awesome. A FA came over and offered to snap a few of us as well. It was a friend of mines first flight on the 787 and so she wanted the pics to remember the fun. Very nice FA. Its odd how some get all pissy but then this one was as friendly as could be and offered to take some with us in it.

astroflyer Nov 27, 2013 11:34 pm


Originally Posted by asphaltman (Post 21867218)
I was flying on a 787 up front in 1 and was taking all sorts of pics, the blue lighting in the middle center console thing was awesome. A FA came over and offered to snap a few of us as well. It was a friend of mines first flight on the 787 and so she wanted the pics to remember the fun. Very nice FA. Its odd how some get all pissy but then this one was as friendly as could be and offered to take some with us in it.

I actually had the same experience recently on the 787. I was trying to get a photo of me with the wing in the background out the window. The FA enthusiastically offered to take a photo and practically got on the ground to get it right.


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