A PMUA FA's Take on UA's Failings
Nov 22, 2013, 3:22 pm
#31
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ORD, MKE
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agree, good people, bad system
I agree that the vast majority of my interactions with UA front-line personnel have been pleasant and professional. I am especially impressed at their positive efforts given how deficiencies of UA management, systems and policies must make it difficult to do their jobs. At least us customers only have to deal with it a few hours a month, or can choose to stop dealing with UA at all.
Quote:Originally Posted by cblaisd:
On the whole these days, I simply don't find an anti-customer culture evidenced by my interactions with front-line personnel. The degeneration has been in the products not the personnel. (Compare, e.g., the experience of breakfast in F ten years ago with now. That's product, not personnel).
I agree with the statement above as well but, the people that are serving the watered down product and those that stand on the front line are overwhelmingly the recipients of the unhappiness and frustration. If I were told 3 times a day that the product is bad and had to deal with passenger frustration through no fault of my own I would probably be ok at first but after a while it wears on you. Especially if you can see that no one at the top gives a darn about when my colleagues and I are going through. The product is bad but it has a carryover effect to the personnel.
On the whole these days, I simply don't find an anti-customer culture evidenced by my interactions with front-line personnel. The degeneration has been in the products not the personnel. (Compare, e.g., the experience of breakfast in F ten years ago with now. That's product, not personnel).
I agree with the statement above as well but, the people that are serving the watered down product and those that stand on the front line are overwhelmingly the recipients of the unhappiness and frustration. If I were told 3 times a day that the product is bad and had to deal with passenger frustration through no fault of my own I would probably be ok at first but after a while it wears on you. Especially if you can see that no one at the top gives a darn about when my colleagues and I are going through. The product is bad but it has a carryover effect to the personnel.
Nov 22, 2013, 3:34 pm
#32
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
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In business and particularly in first, however, UA made the same cuts. Why would I pay UA for an F ticket when I get fly SQ, CX, OZ or NH and be treated far better and given far better amenities, which UA cut. So that's what I do.
UA seems to know how to cut. What they don't seem to realize is that cutting $1.00 doesn't get you anything if you lose $1.50 in business from that cut.
Nov 22, 2013, 3:41 pm
#33
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: iad/dca
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If that is true how is Buy on Board going to work? I think they could offer a good meal and one drink service for say, $20-25 at purchase of ticket and people would buy it. Or they could call it a meal surcharge. I don't think they have put any effort into the issue. There is so much they could do to allow people to pre order from a menu. Of course they would have to be able to find you on the airplane meaning the crew would have to know where you are seated.
Nov 22, 2013, 3:53 pm
#34
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Some people will buy the ancillary bits after the fact. They do today and they will continue to. Some will buy them in advance; others will buy them at the airport/on-board. And still others won't buy them at all. That's the point, though. By letting people who value the extras buy them the company makes more money at both ends. They sell more seats to the most frugal and still get some extra cash from those willing to spend it anyways, arguably more than if they rolled the costs into the tickets.
Nov 22, 2013, 4:41 pm
#35
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: AC E50, UA 1K 108,678 miles 2014
Posts: 146
I'm guessing that the FA knows she has the responsibility of delivering good service but it gets increasingly difficult when the majority of people that you are responsible for taking care of enter into the cabin with a huge chip on their shoulder looking for something to complain about. Furthermore, she is one piece in a giant cog. She can do everything right but the person before her or after screws up royally or ticks someone off, all of her good service goes right out of the window because no one will remember it.
I agree with FA, having a better product at a slightly higher price will attract people in droves. Think about it, if UA were to add $10-15 to every ticket and allow all kettles one checked bag, they would likely have to increase capacity because demand would be higher. It's all about how you package your product. UA can be a leader and change how the industry is trending or they can be a follower and continue down the path of all other airlines and do what they do.
We can spend all day talking about what they can do to improve their product but they don't care what we have to say. Their responsibility is to their shareholder, not stakeholders. As long as shareholder equity continues to climb they have no reason to change course.
Just my two cents...
I agree with FA, having a better product at a slightly higher price will attract people in droves. Think about it, if UA were to add $10-15 to every ticket and allow all kettles one checked bag, they would likely have to increase capacity because demand would be higher. It's all about how you package your product. UA can be a leader and change how the industry is trending or they can be a follower and continue down the path of all other airlines and do what they do.
We can spend all day talking about what they can do to improve their product but they don't care what we have to say. Their responsibility is to their shareholder, not stakeholders. As long as shareholder equity continues to climb they have no reason to change course.
Just my two cents...
Fly TG, Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, ANA....now that's service!!!!
There is no good reason for the front line service on NA Airlines to be as bad as it is.
Nov 22, 2013, 4:47 pm
#36
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When UA is forcing its cabin crews to essentially serve vomit to F pax on domestic flights and the international F and J products are quite weak as well, there isn't a smile big enough that can compensate for an all-around inferior product. The cost-cutting has gotten so ridiculous that even AA/US and DL have nicer glassware, and yet UA is the one claiming to be a world-class carrier. In reality, UA has become a global network carrier that is ran like a glorified Spirit.
Nov 22, 2013, 5:05 pm
#37
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Oh please.
And folks wonder why UA management is dismissive of FT'ers opinions.
Food is not as good as it was 10 years ago (except the cheeseburger. I get very excited when one of the choices is the cheeseburger! Mmmm ^). And I would be happy to never, ever see a bowl of mushroom soup again.
And folks wonder why UA management is dismissive of FT'ers opinions.
Food is not as good as it was 10 years ago (except the cheeseburger. I get very excited when one of the choices is the cheeseburger! Mmmm ^). And I would be happy to never, ever see a bowl of mushroom soup again.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Nov 22, 2013 at 8:54 pm Reason: OMNI
Nov 22, 2013, 5:05 pm
#38
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
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But that's been the case for many years, right? I mean, 10 years ago you should have flown SQ, CX, OZ or NH by the same metric/standard, right? Things haven't really changed all that much, other than UA adding AVOD and flat beds, something that OZ and NH definitely don't have in all their C cabins.
I simply stuck with UA longer than I should have.
Nov 22, 2013, 5:28 pm
#40
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: LAX
Posts: 298
I am a loyal UA flyer now, after a short and unsatisfying hiatus with DL -- who, of course, has a solid product but a sham of a "loyalty" program. I fly UA domestically even when other airlines are cheaper, and even if I question whether I'll clear the upgrade. I even book UA internationally from time to time and have successfully (though not without a great deal of stress) waited to clear on SWUs from the wait list. But, at least as it stands, one thing I would never do is pay full price for UA J/F. Why would anyone, when UA generally wants > $7K for a LAX-LHR roundtrip? For that price I could easily fly on AA's 77W with all-aisle access; on NZ's excellent J product; or even on BA's J product, which is quite easily upgradable to their even better F product. What's more, BA and AA are often substantially (i.e., $1-2K) cheaper than UA.
In short, I think UA is great, but it is a long way from being aspirational or even competitive on an international level.
Nov 22, 2013, 6:11 pm
#41
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: LAS HNL
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As for Virgin America providing great service that passengers are will to pay for. You can not compare that with UA, DL or AA as Virgin America currently flies to twenty destinations in the United States and three in Mexico. http://www.ask.com/wiki/Virgin_Ameri...ions?qsrc=3044
If a kettle looks on the internet for a flt NOT an airline. They look for ONE thing PRICE. They will take a flt with 2 connections to save $1.00. They just want to get to grandmas house for Thanksgiving, not knowing they could be on a nonstop for a few bucks more. A 3 hour flt could be 7 hours, but they saved $1.00. They also don't care about miles.
UA needs to get with the Union and get some rules in place to wear the same uniforms, not mention their former employer, work as a team and provide the best customer service. Period. It has been over 3 years and they still fly as two carriers.
DL is not DL vs NW anymore. It is DL. Some will rip me and say that the NW "folks" are unhappy. We'll maybe some are and always will be. Most of the CS agents and FA's I deal with on DL treat me very well. I had one former NW FA tell me she could not be happier. Raise, profit sharing, better benefits, 401K, DL stock doubling this year, etc. She was very happy, and the service was excellent.
UA was a good airline as well as CO. Perhaps by removing some of the Union "protections for poor service" - they can come together and become a GREAT airline.
And to the GREAT CS agents and FA's I interact with weekly. Thank you. You are the reason I still fly UA about 40% of the time. ^
Nov 22, 2013, 6:33 pm
#42
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 923
+1. UA has yet to be one airline that on one flight the CO captain got on the PA discussing how CO was the greatest airline ever. Personally I thought it was insubordination but really its a reflection of the upper MGMT.
Nov 22, 2013, 8:03 pm
#43
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Oh please.
And folks wonder why UA management is dismissive of FT'ers opinions.
Food is not as good as it was 10 years ago (except the cheeseburger. I get very excited when one of the choices is the cheeseburger! Mmmm ^). And I would be happy to never, ever see a bowl of mushroom soup again.
And folks wonder why UA management is dismissive of FT'ers opinions.
Food is not as good as it was 10 years ago (except the cheeseburger. I get very excited when one of the choices is the cheeseburger! Mmmm ^). And I would be happy to never, ever see a bowl of mushroom soup again.
However, I used to give UA a lot of my business and got tired of being treated so poorly. On AA and DL, even simple meals tell me that they put some thought into them, not just tell GateGourmet: your budget is 0.75 per F meal, we don't care how you manage it like UA does.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Nov 22, 2013 at 8:55 pm Reason: quote/response thereto
Nov 22, 2013, 8:13 pm
#44
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Did you remind her that the responsibility for delivering that extra level of good service to everyone falls mostly on the front line staff, of which she is a part?
I had an FA tell me how disappointed she was that UA doesn't offer 3-cabin F on all international routes. They can want a lot of things. Not all of them make sense.
I had an FA tell me how disappointed she was that UA doesn't offer 3-cabin F on all international routes. They can want a lot of things. Not all of them make sense.
Nov 22, 2013, 8:40 pm
#45
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I have flown: LH, BA, TAM, TAP, AF, KLM, UA, and others in International First. I would NEVER waste my money (or my customers) on UA First. It is an inferior product and overpriced at that. UA MUST offer a FC hard and soft product both on the ground and in the air that is competitive, or just get out of the market completely. Compete against EasyJet if you dare.
I've flown LH, SQ, EK & BA F, too. UA hasn't had a competitive ground experience with any of them in a long, long time. When it was the same comparison 10+ years ago people .....ed and whined, too. But somehow now it is the fault of "Houston" for not dreaming big enough. Reality is that UA hasn't dreamt that big in a long time.
After we get past that the discussion is rather boring, really.