MP account investigated

Old Nov 21, 13, 11:10 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: MP Premier Gold
Posts: 339
MP account investigated

Looking for advise here.

I received an email from MP investigation unit. The email says I used ETC certificate without proper authorization. What happened is I got the ETC through a deal (FT connection). It was a deal involving more than two parties, apparently. Exchanged miles for ETC. Looks like the original owner of the certificate (a few months later) is claiming he/she did not give permission to use the certificate. MP wants reimbursement and threatens with closing my MP account.

What should I do? Reimbursing the MP for "bad" ETC and dealing with the person who gave me he ETC is one option. But what if MP investigators continue to investigate? Anybody has been in this situation?

Is exchanging UA miles for ETC certificates strictly against the MP rules? It happens all the time. Would that be a cause to terminate somebody's account?
v1rok is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 11:15 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AA DULtArer
Posts: 5,525
MP Terms and Conditions, snip from part 5

No mileage, benefits, certificates or awards earned or granted under the Program may be transferred or assigned except as expressly permitted by United in writing or under programs fully authorized and/or sponsored by United.

I don't know if an ETC is transferrable or not, but the miles are not.
LaserSailor is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 11:15 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: BOS, PVG
Programs: United Global Services, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 8,548
This is tough.

I would just reimburse whatever ETC (hope it's not a large amount) and move on. Nor worth the risk to get MP account closed.

Bad luck. It happens.
kb1992 is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 11:22 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 3,337
Originally Posted by v1rok View Post
Looking for advise here.

I received an email from MP investigation unit. The email says I used ETC certificate without proper authorization. What happened is I got the ETC through a deal (FT connection). It was a deal involving more than two parties, apparently. Exchanged miles for ETC. Looks like the original owner of the certificate (a few months later) is claiming he/she did not give permission to use the certificate. MP wants reimbursement and threatens with closing my MP account.

What should I do? Reimbursing the MP for "bad" ETC and dealing with the person who gave me he ETC is one option. But what if MP investigators continue to investigate? Anybody has been in this situation?

Is exchanging UA miles for ETC certificates strictly against the MP rules? It happens all the time. Would that be a cause to terminate somebody's account?
Pay UA what they want. At least that way, you will seem like you made an honest mistake. If you pay them, it is very unlikely that they will close your account or put you on probation.

Read through these threads:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...y-account.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ew-ticket.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...t-flagged.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...udit-what.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...es-merged.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may...icket-20120506
http://elliott.org/blog/airline-free...ve-complaints/

Good Luck!

Last edited by zombietooth; Nov 21, 13 at 1:52 pm
zombietooth is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 11:33 am
  #5  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: MP Premier Gold
Posts: 339
What if MP investigator insists on finding out the source of the ETC? Will I be at risk for not providing this info/cooperating with them?
v1rok is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 11:44 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 3,337
Originally Posted by v1rok View Post
What if MP investigator insists on finding out the source of the ETC? Will I be at risk for not providing this info/cooperating with them?
Look, this is just my opinion, and I am not a lawyer, but I think that by paying them, you will end it right there.

If they ask more questions, I would then defer and seek more advice here or through legal representation.

Last edited by zombietooth; Nov 21, 13 at 11:55 am
zombietooth is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 12:39 pm
  #7  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 44,610
Two options:

1. Tell UA to pound sand, have your account zeroed out and closed for certain; or
2. Pay up and run the risk that #1 occurs.

OP violated the t&c of MP plain and simple (at least with respect to the miles) and got caught.
Often1 is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 1:06 pm
  #8  
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K, HHonors Diamond, National EE
Posts: 195
Originally Posted by v1rok View Post
What if MP investigator insists on finding out the source of the ETC? Will I be at risk for not providing this info/cooperating with them?
I'd say pay up, be honest about the ETC source, plead ignorance of the T&Cs, and apologize profusely.
coutura is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 1:14 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,612
Originally Posted by coutura View Post
I'd say pay up, be honest about the ETC source, plead ignorance of the T&Cs, and apologize profusely.
Yup, caught red handed. Admit to everything, turn states evidence on all parties, beg for the mercy of the court. Or deny everything, protect your co-conspirators, have UA find out on their own (not a difficult thing for them to do) and face the full brunt of UA's terms/conditions.

It's like any conspiracy when caught. Either turn narc and plead out, or let the other side make their case and show no mercy in the sentence.

Remember, everything is traceable and leaves an audit trail so bright any investigator can connect the dots, at least with FF points. Remember, it appears one of the other parties has already been turned (or was scammed) so the case is heavily tilted against you before you even do anything.
fastair is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 1:21 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maui
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 2,792
If I'm understanding correctly, you made a trade with a fellow FT member, who possibly didn't have full ownership of the Ecert?

This is why I don't participate in trades; too much risk IMO.
COSPILOT is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 1:44 pm
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore/YYZ
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,401
Originally Posted by COSPILOT View Post
If I'm understanding correctly, you made a trade with a fellow FT member, who possibly didn't have full ownership of the Ecert?

This is why I don't participate in trades; too much risk IMO.
No, I read it as the 3rd party (original owner) and the other fellow FT member's trade was reneged by the original owner. That's where the story lies. But if it were me, I'd write to the fellow FT member and ask for the entire background of the previous trade.
aacharya is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 1:56 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maui
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 2,792
Originally Posted by aacharya View Post
No, I read it as the 3rd party (original owner) and the other fellow FT member's trade was reneged by the original owner. That's where the story lies. But if it were me, I'd write to the fellow FT member and ask for the entire background of the previous trade.
Nevertheless, I feel said FT member should have a responsibility to situations such as this. Obviously there is only so much FT can do and is probably limited to closing the FT account.
COSPILOT is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 1:56 pm
  #13  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 69,159
ETCs are transferable IIRC. Miles are not. Doing trades with people you don't know is a very, very bad idea.
sbm12 is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 1:59 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maui
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 2,792
Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
ETCs are transferable IIRC. Miles are not. Doing trades with people you don't know is a very, very bad idea.
I agree...
COSPILOT is offline  
Old Nov 21, 13, 2:10 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,185
You broke the rules. Pay them.
UnitedFlyGuy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: