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"Where is this aircraft coming from" questions; Times / aircraft don't make sense!

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"Where is this aircraft coming from" questions; Times / aircraft don't make sense!

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Old Aug 27, 2018, 2:26 pm
  #316  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Originally Posted by jsloan
I think you'll find the same level of disrespect from most major airlines, then. Delays are only posted well in advance when they're entirely unavoidable (e.g., at an international outstation -- if the flight into Chengdu is late, the return is going to be late also). You'd likely see the same treatment flying between domestic hubs on Delta or American.
For all of the times I've felt slightly slighted by United -- especially with the hesitance to post a delay until the last second (and the few times I've had an aircraft swapped out from under me -- delaying what would have been my on-time flight for the sake of another flight, once memorably even confusing the entire crew as well) -- nothing United has done has reached the level of disrespect AA pulled a few weeks back -- first not posting the delay until 20 minutes after scheduled departure (and continuing to roll delays but not until after the previous ETD) but then finally boarding us and as soon as the last person sat down announcing that one of the crewmembers would timeout before our destination so the flight was "now canceled" (Really?!?!? Really?!? you didn't know that the crew member was time critical during the 3 hours you were rolling the delay and just figured it out after boarding everyone? -- but I digress).
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Old Aug 30, 2018, 9:27 am
  #317  
 
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Updated: Response from United

Originally Posted by DiscountBusinessFlyer
Here are my circumstances - a learning experience, no doubt, even for the more experienced flyers among us:

In the early afternoon of our travel date, I checked on the status of our first leg - UA 5751. It showed 'On Schedule'. I also looked at 'Where is this aircraft coming from', and discovered that it was posted at an estimated 1 hour and 41 minutes late.
With this finding, I called the 1K desk to ask if our flights could be rescheduled anticipating the delay, and to avoid getting stranded overnight in transit with my elderly mother. The agent looked into our flight's status and advised us that it would likely be on time. When I asked him to enquire if the delay to the inbound aircraft would impact our flight, he very kindly agreed to put me on hold while he checked. He came back 5 minutes later and said that there is no cause for us to worry – the explanation he provided was that they were probably going to switch aircraft. At that point in time, if the agent had seen that there was a delay posted, he would have rebooked us on the earlier connection, which is what I was requesting. Given that the status was showing On Schedule, he did not feel the need to do so.
We proceeded to the airport a few hours early anyway. At the airport, the agent told us that our flight was definitely going to be delayed to the point that we would miss our connection at LAX. As I had imagined, there was no other aircraft, and the inbound was still posted as Delayed, even though our flight continued to show 'On Schedule'. Again, there was not much she could do since the system was still showing our flight as 'On Time'. Even the departure monitor right above the United counter was showing our flight as 'On Schedule', although there was no aircraft on the way!
The airport agent advised us our best bet was to travel by road to SFO and attempt to make the flight to Newark from there, which was our final destination. At that point, there were no other flights out of MRY that we could switch to – the earlier flight to LAX had just left. She tried to get hold of someone to authorize all this but told us the problem was the system is still not recognizing our flight to be delayed. We were losing time, and at the agent's suggestion, got in touch with Hertz to get a car large enough to transport the five of us with all our bags to SFO. It took the cooperation of Hertz, but we were lucky to get a vehicle in a sold-out situation. The road trip, grueling for my elderly mother, did get us to SFO in time to make the flight from there.
So, as far as I'm concerned, the root-cause of our predicament was not the ATC-related delay, but United's failure to post the correct status even when it was known so far in advance that the inbound flight is delayed. If the status was correctly posted I have no doubt that United would have done a good job in helping us plan a convenient alternative for our travel especially when the delay was known so far in advance. Regrettably, United has dropped the ball on this occasion.

I communicated with 1kVoice at United, and requested a reimbursement of my car rental charges. They denied my claim and brushed this aside as an uncontrollable ATC-related issue - which, of course, I consider grossly unfair and falls well below my expectations from the airline that I almost always feel at home with.

Here is the response from 1K Customer Care - they denied my reimbursement claim and finally said this:
"During weather conditions, we try to operate as many flights as possible, often swapping out aircraft in order to maintain our schedule. I have tried to rephrase this several times, but it appears I am not making myself clear. Your flight was on schedule, until it became impossible to remain on schedule at which time it was delayed. This can happen at any time during weather situations. Mr. xx, again, please accept our apologies for your delay. At this point, I hope I have finally clarified your concerns, as we are going to consider this matter concluded."

Moral of the story; pay attention to the posted status of the inbound flight as the status of your flight may not reflect the correct situation.
To all the FlyerTalkers that took interest in this episode - United took this action, which I believe is fair and closes the issue amicably:
For 3 of my party (the other 2 were on award tickets), United has refunded the fare corresponding to the MRY-LAX segment of our journey. These refunds accumulate to an amount almost equal to our one-way car rental from MRY to SFO. United's logic was that the value of the LAX-EWR sector which was ticketed, is the same as the SFO-EWR sector we had to fly, so they refunded the feeder connection.

All good now.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 11:49 am
  #318  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
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The 4 minute turnaround

UA207:BOS-SFO scheduled to arrive at 11:26am
UA535:SFO-EWR scheduled to depart at 11:30am

Problem is that it’s the SAME PLANE scheduled to fly both routes.

Come on United. What were you thinking?

Has anyone else had scheduling snafus like this one?
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 11:50 am
  #319  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Similar. The aircraft change occurred last minute and the schedule was indeed followed.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 11:53 am
  #320  
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Originally Posted by Seby12
Come on United. What were you thinking?
It wasn't scheduled that way. They had another delay or a plane out of service or something, and this was their solution to minimize the overall impact.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 12:02 pm
  #321  
 
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Yes. I've been on a departing flight where the inbound was set to arrive after the departure time. Eventually UA updated its system to reflect reality (yes, before my late departure).
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 12:36 pm
  #322  
 
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I've seen this multiple times over the years, at times when the inbound flight either arrives within minutes or after the outbound is scheduled. At some point they either do an equipment swap or the outbound gets a delay posted. Generally if the time is hours away, I realize that UA Ops is still trying to figure out exactly what the service recovery is going to be. Once we get close to boarding time, they have to do something, which is probably going to end up as a delay.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 12:56 pm
  #323  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Originally Posted by drowelf
I've seen this multiple times over the years, at times when the inbound flight either arrives within minutes or after the outbound is scheduled. At some point they either do an equipment swap or the outbound gets a delay posted. Generally if the time is hours away, I realize that UA Ops is still trying to figure out exactly what the service recovery is going to be. Once we get close to boarding time, they have to do something, which is probably going to end up as a delay.
The worst part is they usually blame these late departures on a late inbound flight which is lying to be blunt. I've had many late departures where the inbound aircraft actually arrived early but after my scheduled departure time. The honest explanation for flight status would read something like "We're sorry, but we stole the aircraft that was to be used for your flight so we could accommodate some other flight. We're now waiting for another one to come in so we can get you on your way."
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 1:11 pm
  #324  
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Agree. Fairly common, especially with UAX flights.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 1:17 pm
  #325  
 
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I see this all the time. And it usually isn't the result of last minute changes. They just schedule it that way.

Typically they make up for the lack of turnaround time by reducing onboard service --- no time for FAs to serve PDBs and passengers need to secure and close all the overhead bins themselves "because we want to turn the plane around quick!" Sometimes they also use it as an excuse to downgrade a scheduled meal to a snack. "With the inbound flight delay, there was no time for catering to load meals." (as if the "late inbound flight" was out of UALs control)
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 1:19 pm
  #326  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Originally Posted by JimInOhio
The worst part is they usually blame these late departures on a late inbound flight which is lying to be blunt. I've had many late departures where the inbound aircraft actually arrived early but after my scheduled departure time. The honest explanation for flight status would read something like "We're sorry, but we stole the aircraft that was to be used for your flight so we could accommodate some other flight. We're now waiting for another one to come in so we can get you on your way."
What functional difference does it make? Since "late inbound" is still within UA's control, their responsibilities with respect to rebooking/compensation would be the same.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 1:42 pm
  #327  
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Originally Posted by Seby12
UA207:BOS-SFO scheduled to arrive at 11:26am
UA535:SFO-EWR scheduled to depart at 11:30am

Problem is that it’s the SAME PLANE scheduled to fly both routes.

Come on United. What were you thinking?

Has anyone else had scheduling snafus like this one?
It was not "scheduled" this, but there has been an issue with the inbound aircraft, irrops.
Expect
1) a delay to eventually post
2) A switch of aircraft to be used (still might be a delay but less)

In this case, I would expect the first case, due to "small" delay and the specific aircraft needed -- a limited number of alternative aircraft that can be used.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 1:48 pm
  #328  
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Originally Posted by porciuscato
I see this all the time. And it usually isn't the result of last minute changes. They just schedule it that way.
No, they really don't. You can see if you check the schedules as soon as they're loaded -- for example, Sunday should have plane assignments by now and Monday likely does too. They'll schedule quick turns, especially United Express at outstations -- but they'll be scheduled for 30-35 minutes, maybe, not 4.

These issues result in lots of extra headaches from everybody from operations to flight crews to customer service agents. There's no reason for them to set them up intentionally.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 2:40 pm
  #329  
 
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Originally Posted by JimInOhio
The worst part is they usually blame these late departures on a late inbound flight which is lying to be blunt.
There is often a long list of delay codes charged on a single flight. The app only displays the most recent reason. All the other reasons are still logged and are used internally to classify the causes of the delay.

The expanded delay descriptions often make this clear but sometimes still come up short on giving the full background.

The ability to track your airplane back multiple flights on the app is a good tool for predicting delays and figuring out why a flight is being delayed.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 4:08 pm
  #330  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Originally Posted by jsloan
It wasn't scheduled that way. They had another delay or a plane out of service or something, and this was their solution to minimize the overall impact.
Backfilling for the 737 MAX fleet is putting a lot of stress on the fleet, causing shorter turn-arounds than normal. For example, UA433 BOS-SFO departing at 0615 usually is the frame that comes in around midnight the prior night. Now, it's the red-eye that lands at 0530. I was on 433 this morning, and they turned the plane very fast... we were early into SFO.
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