Nov 1, 2013, 4:08 am
Last edit by: aacharya
Moderator Note: Please keep the wiki post limited to just the facts.
New UA Award/Upgrade Chart (vs. Current Chart)
Changes took effect for travel booked starting February 3, 2014. See UA Insider's post linked here for more info about the date change. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22263212-post2366.html
Awards with *A partners now cost more than similar awards flown only on UA metal.
See below for the round-trip increases on partner metal :
Changes to upgrade policy for intra-Asia and northern South America flights
Questions and Answers
Q: If I book an award in January 2014 and then make changes in February or beyond (in routing, airline, origin, destination, etc), will it be repriced according to new mileage requirements, or will I keep the old pricing on that ticket?
Additional details on changing tickets booked prior to 2/3/14 per UA Insider:
Full details are in post #2588 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22283437-post2588.html
Q: Do these rates apply for tickets purchased after Feb 3 or for travel after Feb 3? That is,if one purchases a ticket now, to fly on Mar 15, will that be new or old pricing?
Q: How will award pricing apply to mixed-carrier Saver Awards?
(reverted to J.Edward's rev)
New UA Award/Upgrade Chart (vs. Current Chart)
Changes took effect for travel booked starting February 3, 2014. See UA Insider's post linked here for more info about the date change. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22263212-post2366.html
Awards with *A partners now cost more than similar awards flown only on UA metal.
- F awards on partners went up 40-80%
- J awards on partners went up 20-40%
- F and J awards on UA metal (or mixed carriers where UA metal is in premium cabin followed by partner segment in lower class) as well some Y awards increased by 5-20% (US to Europe in F up 19%, US to Middle East in F up 20% for example)
See below for the round-trip increases on partner metal :
US ✈ Southern South America: +10,000 J, +5,000 F
US ✈ Europe: +40,000 J, +85,000 F
US ✈ Northern/Central/Southern Africa: +40,000 J, +110,000 F
US ✈ Middle East: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +130,000 F
US ✈ Central Asia/India: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +120,000 F
US ✈ South Asia: +15,000 Y, +40,000 J, +120,000 F
US ✈ North Asia: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +100,000 F
US ✈ Japan: +5,000 Y, +30,000 J, +85,000 F
US ✈ Oceania: +30,000 J, +70,000 F
US ✈ Australia/New Zealand: +25,000 J, +100,000 F
RTW: +20,000 Y, +90,000 J, +100,000 F
US ✈ Europe: +40,000 J, +85,000 F
US ✈ Northern/Central/Southern Africa: +40,000 J, +110,000 F
US ✈ Middle East: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +130,000 F
US ✈ Central Asia/India: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +120,000 F
US ✈ South Asia: +15,000 Y, +40,000 J, +120,000 F
US ✈ North Asia: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +100,000 F
US ✈ Japan: +5,000 Y, +30,000 J, +85,000 F
US ✈ Oceania: +30,000 J, +70,000 F
US ✈ Australia/New Zealand: +25,000 J, +100,000 F
RTW: +20,000 Y, +90,000 J, +100,000 F
Changes to upgrade policy for intra-Asia and northern South America flights
- Complimentary Premier Upgrades and instant upgrades are not applicable
- Regional Premier Upgrades (for any fare class) and Global Premier Upgrades (for flights booked in fare class Z, P, S, T, L, K, G or N) can no longer be requested on or after November 1, 2013
- There is no co-pay exemption for MileagePlus Upgrade Awards requested on or after November 1, 2013
- The above changes do not apply to Copa-operated flights.
Questions and Answers
Q: If I book an award in January 2014 and then make changes in February or beyond (in routing, airline, origin, destination, etc), will it be repriced according to new mileage requirements, or will I keep the old pricing on that ticket?
Our existing change process will apply. Changes to awards that require a change in date do not result in a change to the award price. Any other change will require an add/collect in miles and fees for changes or cancellations will still apply as per our existing policies.
Changes that will not trigger a re-price for itineraries ticketed before February 3, 2014 include:
- Date/time (cabin, region, and award type can't change)
- Carrier on one or more segments (cabin, region, and award type can’t change)
- Origin/Destination within the same regions (carrier and cabin can’t change)
Q: Do these rates apply for tickets purchased after Feb 3 or for travel after Feb 3? That is,if one purchases a ticket now, to fly on Mar 15, will that be new or old pricing?
Updated handling for mixed UA-Partner United/partner award itineraries: As we shared with the initial announcement, the Star Alliance/Partner partner award pricing will apply to Business or First awards for itineraries that include at least one flight segment operated by a MileagePlus partner carrier in Business or First.
However, as a customer benefit we have made an exception for most itineraries which require connecting onto a MileagePlus/Star partner in First or Business for a short distance. Specifically, if a United/Copa award itinerary contains a connecting segment on a MileagePlus/Star partner that is wholly within one MileagePlus award region, then the United award price will apply.
However, as a customer benefit we have made an exception for most itineraries which require connecting onto a MileagePlus/Star partner in First or Business for a short distance. Specifically, if a United/Copa award itinerary contains a connecting segment on a MileagePlus/Star partner that is wholly within one MileagePlus award region, then the United award price will apply.
- For example: IAD-FRA in United BusinessFirst connecting to FRA-FCO in Lufthansa Business, will be priced at the United mileage award amount.
- Note that this exception will not apply to a few specific regions and routings, such as intra-Africa connecting segments and certain fifth-freedom routes (e.g. BKK-KUL operated by Lufthansa)
Changes to MileagePlus Award and Upgrade Policies - Eff. 3-Feb-2014
Nov 1, 2013, 8:25 am
#286
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Programs: DL Platinum, AA Lifetime Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Radisson Premium
Posts: 6,638
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 7_0_3 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/537.51.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0 Mobile/11B511 Safari/9537.53)
And the kicker is is we're flying 55+ segments a year and helping The bottom line - CC holders got handed miles and because they are using them, we get penalized. Doesn't management realize that stuff like this cancels out the reasons some HVF's may not have previously defected to DL?
And the kicker is is we're flying 55+ segments a year and helping The bottom line - CC holders got handed miles and because they are using them, we get penalized. Doesn't management realize that stuff like this cancels out the reasons some HVF's may not have previously defected to DL?
Nov 1, 2013, 8:25 am
#287
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: CLE
Programs: UA Gold, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,659
Well, I was hanging on until I hit 1mm. My fear has been that UA will change the bennies for 1MM before I reach that mark. Since the Hilton devaluation, I've broadened my hotel stays. I've got gold now with Marriott (until the end of Jan), the only good thing UA has done since the merger. I just applied for the Club Carlson CC which means gold with them. So, now, I book on price and location, not automatically going to Hilton. If UA devalues 1MM, I move to Aegean for *G, and pay for economy plus on whoever I'm flying for whichever airline turns out to be cheaper/more convenient.
I was on a mission trip this summer and we flew Air Tran. I was shocked, shocked at the experience. Every flight was on time. The seats were comfortable. I haven't had a UA trip this year where at least one leg wasn't delayed. Had a misconnect from ANA to UA last year and ANA booked me on AA. I was unhappy, but it wasn't that bad an experience. (Went from a business class seat to a middle economy--had been upgraded on UA using a SWU). The food was better than UA. There seemed to be more leg room than UA economy.
The airline is going really down hill. I have a lifetime club membership, but if I had it to do over again. I wouldn't have wasted my money. The clubs are dirty, crammed with people and the food just deteriorates.
I realize UA is losing money, but they don't seem to understand that to keep customers they have to offer a decent product. I suppose they think that they will make money selling seats to folks who travel once a year and won't remember a bad experience the next time they book.
I was on a mission trip this summer and we flew Air Tran. I was shocked, shocked at the experience. Every flight was on time. The seats were comfortable. I haven't had a UA trip this year where at least one leg wasn't delayed. Had a misconnect from ANA to UA last year and ANA booked me on AA. I was unhappy, but it wasn't that bad an experience. (Went from a business class seat to a middle economy--had been upgraded on UA using a SWU). The food was better than UA. There seemed to be more leg room than UA economy.
The airline is going really down hill. I have a lifetime club membership, but if I had it to do over again. I wouldn't have wasted my money. The clubs are dirty, crammed with people and the food just deteriorates.
I realize UA is losing money, but they don't seem to understand that to keep customers they have to offer a decent product. I suppose they think that they will make money selling seats to folks who travel once a year and won't remember a bad experience the next time they book.
Nov 1, 2013, 8:26 am
#288
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore/YYZ
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,521
Not sure if anyone has said this...it's a full frontal attack on the airline's best & most frequent customers. No other way to read it...they want to cut back our ease of upgrades & ability to redeem miles on superior *A carriers.
GMs & Silvers (no offense to the latter) probably aren't redeeming a lot for these global premium seats, and aren't looking for R space
GMs & Silvers (no offense to the latter) probably aren't redeeming a lot for these global premium seats, and aren't looking for R space
So it really hits those of us who earn a lot of miles due to flying a lot and bonuses (PP and 1K/GS, who earn 100K to millions a year).
Nov 1, 2013, 8:29 am
#289
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: WAS
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Titanium, Nexus, GE
Posts: 2,123
I moved abroad to Canada last year and the mileage plus program was the one thing keeping me with United. Now that they've devalued their miles to almost worthless, I should stop wasting my time routing my international flights through the US to earn UA miles. Air Canada miles are fairly worthless and now that United's are as well, I might as well choose convenience now.
I am especially disappointed at the magnitude of the changes. Had they changed the redemption values by 20%, I'm sure we would have just grumbled. Instead practically doubling some of the reward costs has motivated me to completely re-examine my travel strategy!
I am especially disappointed at the magnitude of the changes. Had they changed the redemption values by 20%, I'm sure we would have just grumbled. Instead practically doubling some of the reward costs has motivated me to completely re-examine my travel strategy!
Nov 1, 2013, 8:29 am
#290
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
Programs: AF Platinum, EK Gold, AA EXP, UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 21,593
This move is so drastic and so sudden that it just reeks of panic and desperation. The most tragic thing is that it will do the exact opposite of what they they THINK will happen. UA management tragically misunderstands how business works and their competitive position in the industry. Of course, they think this will decrease the outstanding liabilities they have on the books from the unredeemed miles...and that buying behavior will otherwise not be affected.
In reality, what is going to happen is that outside of those who have zero choice in whether to fly United (a group I unfortunately belong to as of this past week), anyone with a choice can and will now decide whether they want to move business to DL where miles are not necessarily worth more, but where they get to fly a better airline OR if they want to move business to AA where miles are still worth more as long as they are redeemed on AA partners that don't charge YQ.
And every time a customer leaves for another airline, it put more pressure on yields because less and less seats a filled from the outstations and spokes of the system. And the shittier the yields, the crappier the revenue performance and that is the ONE thing they have to improve to get credibility with Wall Street.
In the end, this move will do the exact opposite of what Smisek and co think it will do and it will hasten their exit.
In reality, what is going to happen is that outside of those who have zero choice in whether to fly United (a group I unfortunately belong to as of this past week), anyone with a choice can and will now decide whether they want to move business to DL where miles are not necessarily worth more, but where they get to fly a better airline OR if they want to move business to AA where miles are still worth more as long as they are redeemed on AA partners that don't charge YQ.
And every time a customer leaves for another airline, it put more pressure on yields because less and less seats a filled from the outstations and spokes of the system. And the shittier the yields, the crappier the revenue performance and that is the ONE thing they have to improve to get credibility with Wall Street.
In the end, this move will do the exact opposite of what Smisek and co think it will do and it will hasten their exit.
In another thread, I had surmised that Q4 is looking so bad that they need to resort to accounting wizardry to prop up results. Wondering if this devaluation lets them lower MP liability, goose earnings and let Jeff hit his bonus targets despite otherwise bad results... all in the name of short-term profits and before the board wakes up. Over $5 billion in MP liability and $79 million impact of a 1% change. Tempting cookie jar.
From the 2012 10-K...
Nov 1, 2013, 8:29 am
#291
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 815
If the devaluation was truly aimed at the CC holders rather than the Frequent flyers, then UA could partly offset this by increasing elite flight bonuses or rountinely by offering, once or twice a year discounts on mileage redemptions - depending on status.
Pigs will fly?
Pigs will fly?
Nov 1, 2013, 8:31 am
#292
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Boston
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 272
If UA thinks that doing this will decrease their liability, and increase revenue magically, they are terribly, terribly, terribly, terribly, terribly, terribly mistaken. Ever heard the phrase: the straw that broke Camel's back? I have more than 5000 USD worth travel (after >10000USD spend already this year) coming up on UA metal in next few months this year, but after this: NEVER AGAIN WITH UA - will only fly UA to clean out my MP account!!
Nov 1, 2013, 8:32 am
#293
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: CLE
Programs: UA Gold, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,659
+1
In another thread, I had surmised that Q4 is looking so bad that they need to resort to accounting wizardry to prop up results. Wondering if this devaluation lets them lower MP liability, goose earnings and let Jeff hit his bonus targets despite otherwise bad results... all in the name of short-term profits and before the board wakes up. Over $5 billion in MP liability and $79 million impact of a 1% change. Tempting cookie jar.
From the 2012 10-K...
In another thread, I had surmised that Q4 is looking so bad that they need to resort to accounting wizardry to prop up results. Wondering if this devaluation lets them lower MP liability, goose earnings and let Jeff hit his bonus targets despite otherwise bad results... all in the name of short-term profits and before the board wakes up. Over $5 billion in MP liability and $79 million impact of a 1% change. Tempting cookie jar.
From the 2012 10-K...
Nov 1, 2013, 8:33 am
#294
Join Date: Dec 2012
Programs: UA Platinum, HH Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 183
This will definitely hurt the business of those who book award trips for others for a living.
Nov 1, 2013, 8:33 am
#295
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5
Why not United cancels the MileagePlus program? Devaluation will make this airline no difference from DL, AA, or, even Jetblue and Southwest.
I have been flying with United for 7 years. Now it's time to take a look on other airlines.....
I have been flying with United for 7 years. Now it's time to take a look on other airlines.....
Nov 1, 2013, 8:36 am
#297
Moderator, Omni, Omni/PR, Omni/Games, FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Between DCA and IAD
Programs: UA 1K MM; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 67,108
So what is the spin on this? I see UA Insider didn't even try to bother casting it as an "enhancement." 
My only question so far, without having read through the full thread, is if an award to places UA doesn't serve and which require partner flights, can be booked:
UA (J/F) -> *A Partner Hub -> Partner (Y)
to avoid paying the ridiculous surcharges for partner awards (yeah, Y went up for partners, but not up by what amounts to a 50-65% hike in cost). I end up with such routings on occasion as it is when partners have limited front-cabin availability, but how easily will I be able to force this when booking award flights without having to call?
I correct myself: I have two questions, though the second is more rhetorical. Is UA trying to destroy *A? Changes like this one, the *G bag rules, the degraded *S benefits (e.g. none), are only going to encourage the rest of *A to do the same in return to UA. Couple LH's alliance-unfriendly changes with UA's, and two of the founding members have really decided to make the alliance far less worthwhile.
My only question so far, without having read through the full thread, is if an award to places UA doesn't serve and which require partner flights, can be booked:
UA (J/F) -> *A Partner Hub -> Partner (Y)
to avoid paying the ridiculous surcharges for partner awards (yeah, Y went up for partners, but not up by what amounts to a 50-65% hike in cost). I end up with such routings on occasion as it is when partners have limited front-cabin availability, but how easily will I be able to force this when booking award flights without having to call?
I correct myself: I have two questions, though the second is more rhetorical. Is UA trying to destroy *A? Changes like this one, the *G bag rules, the degraded *S benefits (e.g. none), are only going to encourage the rest of *A to do the same in return to UA. Couple LH's alliance-unfriendly changes with UA's, and two of the founding members have really decided to make the alliance far less worthwhile.
Nov 1, 2013, 8:37 am
#298
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Ye Advocates of Consolidated Power, Reap Thy Fruits.
What do you expect from the government granting so many favors and consolidation and ATI allowances to US and European airlines? More, more major devaluations are the natural consequence of a more concentrated industry power and no real power standing up for consumers to prevent loyalty program operators from dealing with customers like Ponzi scheme operators.
What do you expect from the government granting so many favors and consolidation and ATI allowances to US and European airlines? More, more major devaluations are the natural consequence of a more concentrated industry power and no real power standing up for consumers to prevent loyalty program operators from dealing with customers like Ponzi scheme operators.
Nov 1, 2013, 8:39 am
#299
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: EWR
Programs: UA Gold, UA MM, Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,329
Well, I was hanging on until I hit 1mm. My fear has been that UA will change the bennies for 1MM before I reach that mark. Since the Hilton devaluation, I've broadened my hotel stays. I've got gold now with Marriott (until the end of Jan), the only good thing UA has done since the merger. I just applied for the Club Carlson CC which means gold with them. So, now, I book on price and location, not automatically going to Hilton. If UA devalues 1MM, I move to Aegean for *G, and pay for economy plus on whoever I'm flying for whichever airline turns out to be cheaper/more convenient.
Nov 1, 2013, 8:40 am
#300
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,387