Nov 1, 2013, 4:08 am
Last edit by: aacharya
Moderator Note: Please keep the wiki post limited to just the facts.
New UA Award/Upgrade Chart (vs. Current Chart)
Changes took effect for travel booked starting February 3, 2014. See UA Insider's post linked here for more info about the date change. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22263212-post2366.html
Awards with *A partners now cost more than similar awards flown only on UA metal.
See below for the round-trip increases on partner metal :
Changes to upgrade policy for intra-Asia and northern South America flights
Questions and Answers
Q: If I book an award in January 2014 and then make changes in February or beyond (in routing, airline, origin, destination, etc), will it be repriced according to new mileage requirements, or will I keep the old pricing on that ticket?
Additional details on changing tickets booked prior to 2/3/14 per UA Insider:
Full details are in post #2588 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22283437-post2588.html
Q: Do these rates apply for tickets purchased after Feb 3 or for travel after Feb 3? That is,if one purchases a ticket now, to fly on Mar 15, will that be new or old pricing?
Q: How will award pricing apply to mixed-carrier Saver Awards?
(reverted to J.Edward's rev)
New UA Award/Upgrade Chart (vs. Current Chart)
Changes took effect for travel booked starting February 3, 2014. See UA Insider's post linked here for more info about the date change. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22263212-post2366.html
Awards with *A partners now cost more than similar awards flown only on UA metal.
- F awards on partners went up 40-80%
- J awards on partners went up 20-40%
- F and J awards on UA metal (or mixed carriers where UA metal is in premium cabin followed by partner segment in lower class) as well some Y awards increased by 5-20% (US to Europe in F up 19%, US to Middle East in F up 20% for example)
See below for the round-trip increases on partner metal :
US ✈ Southern South America: +10,000 J, +5,000 F
US ✈ Europe: +40,000 J, +85,000 F
US ✈ Northern/Central/Southern Africa: +40,000 J, +110,000 F
US ✈ Middle East: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +130,000 F
US ✈ Central Asia/India: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +120,000 F
US ✈ South Asia: +15,000 Y, +40,000 J, +120,000 F
US ✈ North Asia: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +100,000 F
US ✈ Japan: +5,000 Y, +30,000 J, +85,000 F
US ✈ Oceania: +30,000 J, +70,000 F
US ✈ Australia/New Zealand: +25,000 J, +100,000 F
RTW: +20,000 Y, +90,000 J, +100,000 F
US ✈ Europe: +40,000 J, +85,000 F
US ✈ Northern/Central/Southern Africa: +40,000 J, +110,000 F
US ✈ Middle East: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +130,000 F
US ✈ Central Asia/India: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +120,000 F
US ✈ South Asia: +15,000 Y, +40,000 J, +120,000 F
US ✈ North Asia: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +100,000 F
US ✈ Japan: +5,000 Y, +30,000 J, +85,000 F
US ✈ Oceania: +30,000 J, +70,000 F
US ✈ Australia/New Zealand: +25,000 J, +100,000 F
RTW: +20,000 Y, +90,000 J, +100,000 F
Changes to upgrade policy for intra-Asia and northern South America flights
- Complimentary Premier Upgrades and instant upgrades are not applicable
- Regional Premier Upgrades (for any fare class) and Global Premier Upgrades (for flights booked in fare class Z, P, S, T, L, K, G or N) can no longer be requested on or after November 1, 2013
- There is no co-pay exemption for MileagePlus Upgrade Awards requested on or after November 1, 2013
- The above changes do not apply to Copa-operated flights.
Questions and Answers
Q: If I book an award in January 2014 and then make changes in February or beyond (in routing, airline, origin, destination, etc), will it be repriced according to new mileage requirements, or will I keep the old pricing on that ticket?
Our existing change process will apply. Changes to awards that require a change in date do not result in a change to the award price. Any other change will require an add/collect in miles and fees for changes or cancellations will still apply as per our existing policies.
Changes that will not trigger a re-price for itineraries ticketed before February 3, 2014 include:
- Date/time (cabin, region, and award type can't change)
- Carrier on one or more segments (cabin, region, and award type can’t change)
- Origin/Destination within the same regions (carrier and cabin can’t change)
Q: Do these rates apply for tickets purchased after Feb 3 or for travel after Feb 3? That is,if one purchases a ticket now, to fly on Mar 15, will that be new or old pricing?
Updated handling for mixed UA-Partner United/partner award itineraries: As we shared with the initial announcement, the Star Alliance/Partner partner award pricing will apply to Business or First awards for itineraries that include at least one flight segment operated by a MileagePlus partner carrier in Business or First.
However, as a customer benefit we have made an exception for most itineraries which require connecting onto a MileagePlus/Star partner in First or Business for a short distance. Specifically, if a United/Copa award itinerary contains a connecting segment on a MileagePlus/Star partner that is wholly within one MileagePlus award region, then the United award price will apply.
However, as a customer benefit we have made an exception for most itineraries which require connecting onto a MileagePlus/Star partner in First or Business for a short distance. Specifically, if a United/Copa award itinerary contains a connecting segment on a MileagePlus/Star partner that is wholly within one MileagePlus award region, then the United award price will apply.
- For example: IAD-FRA in United BusinessFirst connecting to FRA-FCO in Lufthansa Business, will be priced at the United mileage award amount.
- Note that this exception will not apply to a few specific regions and routings, such as intra-Africa connecting segments and certain fifth-freedom routes (e.g. BKK-KUL operated by Lufthansa)
Changes to MileagePlus Award and Upgrade Policies - Eff. 3-Feb-2014
Feb 3, 2014, 11:31 pm
#2566
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.744MM, WN AL, Hyatt Diamond, MR Scum, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC
Posts: 5,561
Clearing out some old emails and found this email subject from UA just 5 days ago
Ask and you shall receive UA!
I'm seeing it too. In all the cases I'm seeing it is where the longhaul is in Y and the feeders are in J. For example SIN-BKK-FRA-LHR where BKK-FRA is in Y while the others are in J. Seems to price out at the UA rate instead of the partner rate in that case. Looks like maybe there is some distance based logic in there??? Of course anyone who books that should be ashamed since the corresponding all-Y itinerary is 55k.
Turn your 124,xxx miles into a travel experience, electronics and more
SIN-LHR shows 85,000 miles for Business Saver when all flights are available in Business, but drops down in some BUT NOT ALL cases to 75,000 miles for mix class with an economy or coach flight thrown in. Is there any rhyme or reason to this, or is it just a software glitch?
Last edited by jasonvr; Feb 3, 2014 at 11:39 pm
Feb 3, 2014, 11:59 pm
#2567
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: ECP
Programs: DL Diamond
Posts: 1,658
It does look like there's some distance based logic built in. I'm seeing USA-Europe-Europe in UA C/LH C pricing at the UA C price.
Feb 4, 2014, 12:41 am
#2568
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Programs: Hyatt LT Globalist, Marriot LT Titanium, UA 2.4MM, HH Gold, AS MVPG
Posts: 3,400
Some funny things with the new award chart. Was playing around and found Sydney, via ICN. From ICN to SYD is obviously on OZ and a two-cabin flight. From SFO-ICN both UA GF and UA BF are available, so since it connects to a *A in business they both are 80K miles.
Feb 4, 2014, 2:09 am
#2569
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
What would be even more interesting to see is how this works out for UA financially.
Basically it boils down to what the spread is between earning and redeeming miles, which can be broken down into three categories.
1. Miles earned from flying.
2. Miles sold to Chase.
3. Miles bought on award accelerators.
IMHO, they'll get badly hurt on 1) because even though there will be a shift in redemptions from *A partners to UA, which reduces the cost of redemption to UA, I think a lot of HVFs will reduce UA spending or leave UA because one of the main benefits of MP was the partner redemption.
On 2), I suspect it will be wash. They'll save some money on redemptions, but they will sell fewer miles to Chase because for Chase customers the miles are less valuable and there is less reason to use a Chase credit card.
I think they will also see a big drop in award accelerator sales. IMHO miles bought on accelerators are only a good deal if you redeem on premium international fares. With the huge increase in redemption levels for partner awards, purchase miles (at current prices) don't make any sense.
The adjustment will take a year or so, which will allow the clowns at HQ to keep their jobs for a few more quarters while they get a temporary one time boost in financial performance, but long term I have to believe this will seriously hurt UA.
(Just my $0.02 from an armchair aviation industry expert
)
Basically it boils down to what the spread is between earning and redeeming miles, which can be broken down into three categories.
1. Miles earned from flying.
2. Miles sold to Chase.
3. Miles bought on award accelerators.
IMHO, they'll get badly hurt on 1) because even though there will be a shift in redemptions from *A partners to UA, which reduces the cost of redemption to UA, I think a lot of HVFs will reduce UA spending or leave UA because one of the main benefits of MP was the partner redemption.
On 2), I suspect it will be wash. They'll save some money on redemptions, but they will sell fewer miles to Chase because for Chase customers the miles are less valuable and there is less reason to use a Chase credit card.
I think they will also see a big drop in award accelerator sales. IMHO miles bought on accelerators are only a good deal if you redeem on premium international fares. With the huge increase in redemption levels for partner awards, purchase miles (at current prices) don't make any sense.
The adjustment will take a year or so, which will allow the clowns at HQ to keep their jobs for a few more quarters while they get a temporary one time boost in financial performance, but long term I have to believe this will seriously hurt UA.
(Just my $0.02 from an armchair aviation industry expert
)DL led the way in major devaluations of the program. UA is trying to get there too. USdbaAA is eventually likely to follow with a major devaluation too. The airlines are like lemmings. And consumers aren't really rallying in any way that could effectively act as a restraint on these devaluations. "The beatings (of the consumers) will continue until (consumer) morale improves".
Feb 4, 2014, 2:25 am
#2570
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: UA GS>1K>Nothing; DL DM 2MM; AS 75K>Nothing>MVP
Posts: 9,341
Unfortunately HVFs mostly don't seem to care that much (any longer) about earning miles from flying to be redeemed for new tickets and are now probably generally more concerned about the at-airport and on-board benefits of the FFP than about being able to use miles earned from flying for redeeming for new tickets. The airlines have groomed customers to expect to be frustrated by award availability and/or award ticket pricing; given that and given how many favors the government has given the US legacy majors, the consumers -- HVFs or otherwise -- are out of luck given the oligopolistic nature of this market in the main.
DL led the way in major devaluations of the program. UA is trying to get there too. USdbaAA is eventually likely to follow with a major devaluation too. The airlines are like lemmings. And consumers aren't really rallying in any way that could effectively act as a restraint on these devaluations. "The beatings (of the consumers) will continue until (consumer) morale improves".
DL led the way in major devaluations of the program. UA is trying to get there too. USdbaAA is eventually likely to follow with a major devaluation too. The airlines are like lemmings. And consumers aren't really rallying in any way that could effectively act as a restraint on these devaluations. "The beatings (of the consumers) will continue until (consumer) morale improves".
1) It was pretty easy to book award travel in F, and
2) There are plenty of other options (e.g. SQ, EK, CX, LH, etc, etc.....) other than UA, DL, and AA, all of which have better hard and soft product. Without the advantage of MP, UA has nothing to compete with against these carriers.
Feb 4, 2014, 5:42 am
#2571
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: EZE
Posts: 123
SIN-LHR shows 85,000 miles for Business Saver when all flights are available in Business, but drops down in some BUT NOT ALL cases to 75,000 miles for mixed classes with an economy flight thrown in. Is there any rhyme or reason to this, or is it just a software glitch?
While United said United business + partner business will always put you on the partner business chart. In fact, that’s only true if both flights are region-connecting. If the partner flight is intra-region, you can stay on the cheaper United chart.
I do not think that distance matters. I think it's intra-region (the 17 regions on United's chart) vs. region-connecting that matters.
Examples:
You fly Chicago to Frankfurt in Lufthansa business. You pay the partner business class price (70k) since the region-connecting (and only) flight on this award is a partner flight.
You fly Denver to Chicago in United business and Chicago to Frankfurt in Lufthansa business. You pay the partner business class price (70k) since the region-connecting flight (US to Europe) on this award is a partner flight.
You fly Chicago to Frankfurt in United business and Frankfurt to Athens in Lufthansa business. You pay the United business class price (57.5k) since the region-connecting flight (US to Europe) on this award is a United flight.
You fly Chicago to Frankfurt in United business and Frankfurt to Cairo in Egyptair business. You pay the partner business class price (80k) since there are two region-connecting flights (US to Europe and Europe to Northern Africa), both are in the same cabin, and one is on a partner.
You fly Chicago to Frankfurt in United business and Frankfurt to Cairo in Egyptair economy. You pay the United business class price (70k) since there are two region-connecting flights (US to Europe and Europe to Northern Africa), and the United one is in a higher cabin (business vs. economy.)
You fly San Francisco to Seoul in United business and Seoul to Beijing in Air China business. You pay the United business class price (70k) since it is the only region-connecting flight (US to North Asia.) Seoul and Beijing are both in North Asia, so that is not a region-connecting flight.
You fly San Francisco to Tokyo in United business and Tokyo to Beijing in ANA business. You pay the partner business class price (80k) since there are two region-connecting flights (US to Japan and Japan to North Asia), both are in the same cabin, and one is on a partner.
Last edited by milevalue; Feb 4, 2014 at 5:44 am Reason: improve formatting
Feb 4, 2014, 5:43 am
#2572
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: EZE
Posts: 123
UA F plus partner biz = UA First price (80k in this case)
UA biz plus partner biz = partner biz price (80k in this case)
Feb 4, 2014, 5:56 am
#2573
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 4,508
I'm seeing all sorts of availability I never saw before including SIN/FRA in LH 380 F and FRA/IAD LH F more than two weeks out. Good news for "mileage millionaires."
Feb 4, 2014, 6:01 am
#2574
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX
Programs: Honors Gold, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 288
What does it mean when I see a LH FC availability on United.com but UA agents say there isn't available?
Feb 4, 2014, 6:02 am
#2575
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX
Programs: Honors Gold, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 288
Yet, when I call in United, all agents at Premier desk say there isn't a FC available to Dulles on the day I want to up from I class while I clearly see availability on United.com.....
Feb 4, 2014, 6:06 am
#2576
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
Programs: AF Platinum, EK Gold, AA EXP, UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 21,601
If you can't see it on ANA, it is phantom.
Feb 4, 2014, 6:09 am
#2577
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX
Programs: Honors Gold, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 288
ANA does seem to display a routing FRA-IAD at all based on my previous experience while I got a ticket. That's another issue with ANA. I will have to keep calling them up.
Feb 4, 2014, 6:15 am
#2578
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 4,508
Some phantom, some not. Unfortunately we still have to double check with ANA. But I wouldn't be surprised to see the "phantom" aspect disappear as demand dries up because of the increased redemption rates. It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out in a month or two.
Feb 4, 2014, 6:20 am
#2579
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
Kind of agree, but you're mostly thinking about the domestic market, and the people who were hit with the devaluation are mostly international flyer for whom:
1) It was pretty easy to book award travel in F, and
2) There are plenty of other options (e.g. SQ, EK, CX, LH, etc, etc.....) other than UA, DL, and AA, all of which have better hard and soft product. Without the advantage of MP, UA has nothing to compete with against these carriers.
1) It was pretty easy to book award travel in F, and
2) There are plenty of other options (e.g. SQ, EK, CX, LH, etc, etc.....) other than UA, DL, and AA, all of which have better hard and soft product. Without the advantage of MP, UA has nothing to compete with against these carriers.
Feb 4, 2014, 6:21 am
#2580
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX
Programs: Honors Gold, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 288
Some phantom, some not. Unfortunately we still have to double check with ANA. But I wouldn't be surprised to see the "phantom" aspect disappear as demand dries up because of the increased redemption rates. It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out in a month or two.