Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

UA Blocking Expert Flyer and KVS Access to R and Elite Award Searches.

Wikipost is Locked  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 3:36 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
UA Insider's reply in posts 247 and 254 of this thread:
Originally Posted by UA Insider
Hi everyone,

We recognize the importance and value to you of accessible and transparent information about United flights. It’s a meaningful part of your travel planning, and we are committed to providing useful information that is both accurate and preserves the integrity of United’s data and systems.

While we are committed to data transparency, Expert Flyer has been accessing united.com in an unauthorized fashion to retrieve UA availability. In addition, these activities have consumed significant united.com bandwidth that could otherwise be used by regular consumers. As a result, we had to take this action to protect the security and integrity of United’s systems.

Thank you for your understanding as to why we had to take this action. We continue to look at ways in which we can provide you with timely and useful information (some of which you will see in new releases of our own digital channels) as well as with partners that have authorized access to our data.

Aaron Goldberg
Sr. Manager - Customer Experience Planning
United Airlines
Originally Posted by UA Insider
Expert mode/visibility in UA channels is unaffected by this.
Print Wikipost

UA Blocking Expert Flyer and KVS Access to R and Elite Award Searches.

Old Oct 30, 2013, 7:45 am
  #76  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: AA Plat, UA 1K>Plat>moving to Silver
Posts: 2,067
Financial impact on UA of R inventory knowledge

Originally Posted by dkc715
This change suggests expert mode will lose R/RN visibility in coming days. I am certain United doesn't like people intentionally booking coach knowing they can immediately upgrade on ticketing. I'm sure management thinks they are leaving revenue on the table since some customers will now book premium cabins who would otherwise pay coach/upgrade.
Problem is, I might well buy that coach ticket on another airline if I had not known at least one leg was R. I can think of two international trips in the last year where that was true.
Artpen100 is online now  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 7:46 am
  #77  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AA DULtArer
Posts: 5,552
Originally Posted by LAXOGG
I suspect that this policy was implemented to limit the opportunity to 'jump the queue" in the upgade list. Obviously it still could be done, but you now have to find your own availability with your own search.
Precisely.

Originally Posted by golfingboy
This sucks, but I use expert mode on UA.com to obtain such information. Often I would manually find the space before I even receive an EF alert.

Less transparency sucks though

Sssshhhhh. That's how I've been jumping the queue....

Last edited by iluv2fly; Oct 30, 2013 at 7:58 pm Reason: merge
LaserSailor is offline  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 7:48 am
  #78  
Moderator, Omni, Omni/PR, Omni/Games, FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Between DCA and IAD
Programs: UA 1K MM; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 67,012
Originally Posted by LaserSailor
Info available in expert mode, so claims of lack of transparency are moot. We don't know the business arrangement between UA and EF so our comments here are speculative.
Do we know that for sure, though?

EF claims the change will take effect after tomorrow (e.g. Friday, which is when UA Insider was going to possibly announce it ).

Thus, I would expect expert mode to work today and tomorrow... but it could very well be UA "fixes" it on Friday at the same time they take away EF's window into the data.
exerda is offline  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 7:54 am
  #79  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
Why is COdbaUA doing this? In my mind, it's clear.

EF has exposed their lies and incompetence. It's allowed us to see (and manage) failures to deliver (such as not clearing GPUs into R) and lies (such as promising enhanced elite availability that, in fact, does not exist).

We know they have no interest in fixing any of these problems, so they want to cover up the evidence instead.

In my mind, it's that simple.
FlyWorld is offline  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 7:55 am
  #80  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Originally Posted by exerda
IIRC...
You don't. Sorry.

Moving the access of the data to behind the login was the plan all along. The "outcry" here or elsewhere had nothing to do with that. The timing was unfortunate and the original plan was just to move it without the outage rather than having the gap in the middle where it was completely gone but that obviously didn't happen.
sbm12 is offline  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 7:56 am
  #81  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: msp
Programs: AA PLT 3MM, DL PM 2MM
Posts: 1,142
Originally Posted by PV_Premier
Terrible. Absolutely terrible.

As if I needed any more reasons to be done with UA. They just keep giving them to me.
Ditto. Can't believe it!
bcj1949 is offline  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 7:58 am
  #82  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 537
Well, this is very unfortunate.

Any news on KVS?
WhyPayRent is offline  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 8:00 am
  #83  
txp
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Texas
Programs: UA, AA, DL, BA, Marriott, Hilton, Accor, Hyatt
Posts: 1,284
This is very bad news. All it will do is take up countless hours of their agents' time, as I will have to call in and check from now on. I sent a message to Aaron urging them to reverse the decision. Unless they want to have their agent do the work for us.

Originally Posted by WhyPayRent
Well, this is very unfortunate.

Any news on KVS?
Good question! Will KVS still show it???

Last edited by iluv2fly; Oct 30, 2013 at 7:58 pm Reason: merge
txp is offline  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 8:01 am
  #84  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: PBI / FLL / YUL
Programs: UA 1K, Delta Plat, AA Plat, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Courtesy Card
Posts: 1,983
Originally Posted by sbm12
You could also just check the website, saving yourself a lot of time and energy versus calling in.
Hard to check the website when you are not in front of a computer, so it might not always be an option. @:-)
fjfv19 is offline  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 8:02 am
  #85  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, AA, DL
Posts: 7,404
Originally Posted by LAXOGG
I suspect that this policy was implemented to limit the opportunity to 'jump the queue" in the upgade list. Obviously it still could be done, but you now have to find your own availability with your own search.
That doesn't really explain award space also being blocked from visibility.

I think this is like the AwardWallet etc. fights - UA wants money for access to valuable information. They can't ban all access because travel agents need it too.

Originally Posted by dkc715
This change suggests expert mode will lose R/RN visibility in coming days. I am certain United doesn't like people intentionally booking coach knowing they can immediately upgrade on ticketing.
Then why even have R space at all? Or why have R space available more than, say, 120 hours before a flight? Hiding the information just frustrates everyone, but doesn't really solve the problem you identify. And for that matter it's not really a problem - R space opens up when United's inventory management tells them they're not going to sell all the business seats at the asking price. R space means they can sell a coach seat and get some revenue, or at least take a liability off the books--miles or upgrade instruments. If allowing upgrades were bad business they wouldn't have them.

Originally Posted by dpdapper
Incredibly disappointing. Seems self-defeating for United--why hide this information from (presumably) loyal MileagePlus members who are simply trying to use their (sometimes) hard-earned miles efficiently?

I do recall United taking its data off ExpertFlyer a couple of years (?) ago and then they apparently reconsidered and the data reappeared on ExpertFlyer. Perhaps they will again see the light.
As above, it's a question of how much ExpertFlyer is willing to pay United to access this information.
drewguy is offline  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 8:08 am
  #86  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Originally Posted by txp
Good question! Will KVS still show it???
Probably, since the "scraping" that EF does originates from the client computer rather than a server and, among other things, UA can't really monitor that.
Originally Posted by drewguy
I think this is like the AwardWallet etc. fights - UA wants money for access to valuable information. They can't ban all access because travel agents need it too.
Yes and no. The data in question already isn't published to the GDS feeds so travel agents aren't getting it from there.
Originally Posted by drewguy
As above, it's a question of how much ExpertFlyer is willing to pay United to access this information.
:-: And also if UA is willing to license it.
Originally Posted by txp
... I will have to call in and check from now on. ...
Or check online.
sbm12 is offline  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 8:11 am
  #87  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,949
This could all be about driving loyalty to the United brand, where only "loyal" fliers get access to search award inventory, thus deterring opportunists who will jump around to any carrier for a good deal on a J seat. Higher level elites may actually get better access to seat inventory once the new requirements hit in January.
zombietooth is offline  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 8:11 am
  #88  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, AA, DL
Posts: 7,404
Originally Posted by sbm12
Yes and no. The data in question already isn't published to the GDS feeds so travel agents aren't getting it from there
I meant the paid fare classes - isn't that something travel agents have access to? In other words, if UA makes paid fare class availability open to travel agents, it's hard for them to prevent Expert Flyer from having access to that. Different story for upgrade and award space.
drewguy is offline  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 8:17 am
  #89  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,256
Originally Posted by sbm12

Or check online.
I guess you missed the part about not being in front of a computer.

On more than one occasion I've received an EF e-mail informing me of R availability that I might have missed otherwise.
halls120 is online now  
Old Oct 30, 2013, 8:18 am
  #90  
txp
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Texas
Programs: UA, AA, DL, BA, Marriott, Hilton, Accor, Hyatt
Posts: 1,284
Originally Posted by sbm12

Or check online.
With EF, I can check in up to five days at the time, all flights. On line, I have to do it flight by flight, day by day. I would rather have the UA agent do it for me. This will be a huge time cost for UA. I am not sure they realize the unintended consequences.
txp is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.