Oct 30, 2013, 3:36 pm
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
UA Insider's reply in posts 247 and 254 of this thread:
Hi everyone,
We recognize the importance and value to you of accessible and transparent information about United flights. It’s a meaningful part of your travel planning, and we are committed to providing useful information that is both accurate and preserves the integrity of United’s data and systems.
While we are committed to data transparency, Expert Flyer has been accessing united.com in an unauthorized fashion to retrieve UA availability. In addition, these activities have consumed significant united.com bandwidth that could otherwise be used by regular consumers. As a result, we had to take this action to protect the security and integrity of United’s systems.
Thank you for your understanding as to why we had to take this action. We continue to look at ways in which we can provide you with timely and useful information (some of which you will see in new releases of our own digital channels) as well as with partners that have authorized access to our data.
Aaron Goldberg
Sr. Manager - Customer Experience Planning
United Airlines
We recognize the importance and value to you of accessible and transparent information about United flights. It’s a meaningful part of your travel planning, and we are committed to providing useful information that is both accurate and preserves the integrity of United’s data and systems.
While we are committed to data transparency, Expert Flyer has been accessing united.com in an unauthorized fashion to retrieve UA availability. In addition, these activities have consumed significant united.com bandwidth that could otherwise be used by regular consumers. As a result, we had to take this action to protect the security and integrity of United’s systems.
Thank you for your understanding as to why we had to take this action. We continue to look at ways in which we can provide you with timely and useful information (some of which you will see in new releases of our own digital channels) as well as with partners that have authorized access to our data.
Aaron Goldberg
Sr. Manager - Customer Experience Planning
United Airlines
UA Blocking Expert Flyer and KVS Access to R and Elite Award Searches.
Nov 29, 2013, 9:17 pm
#676
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,468
Why does EF still allow award searches and lets you put in citypairs, dates, just to be informed on the following page:
"UA Awards and Upgrades are currently unavailable at the request of United. More information about the change and how to send feedback to United about it can be found here. Thank you for your understanding."
At least put it right into the front of UA award search! Thanks!
"UA Awards and Upgrades are currently unavailable at the request of United. More information about the change and how to send feedback to United about it can be found here. Thank you for your understanding."
At least put it right into the front of UA award search! Thanks!
Nov 30, 2013, 12:22 pm
#678
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: UA 1K MM, HHonors Diamond,PC, Marriott Rewards Gold
Posts: 1,117
You don't miss CO. You're flying CO. You miss UA.
Pure logic and only my opinion but. EFs mission was to allow subscribers to jump the cue for GPU and RPU.
No doubt UAinsider saw this as blatantly unfair, and it reduced the ability to sell upgrades instead of giving them to 1K and GS GPU wait-listers.
I think it is unfair unless you're selling upgrades ahead of GPU and RPU instruments which many found to be the case.
I viewed EF as a tool to fix a corrupted system and now I will only book when R space is positive and available for upgrades at time of booking. I'm already down to 2 SWU for 2014 so I've adapted and am not upset really. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. It's all going to wash out in 2015 when we see how many elites the new financial thresholds yield. Maybe just maybe it will work out.
I'm looking over the fence at AAUS to see what's going on with Doug Parker and his activities for 2015. I'll be a 1MM by then greatly reducing switching costs. If GPUs don't work well at UA in 2015 there's a switch coming.
Pure logic and only my opinion but. EFs mission was to allow subscribers to jump the cue for GPU and RPU.
No doubt UAinsider saw this as blatantly unfair, and it reduced the ability to sell upgrades instead of giving them to 1K and GS GPU wait-listers.
I think it is unfair unless you're selling upgrades ahead of GPU and RPU instruments which many found to be the case.
I viewed EF as a tool to fix a corrupted system and now I will only book when R space is positive and available for upgrades at time of booking. I'm already down to 2 SWU for 2014 so I've adapted and am not upset really. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. It's all going to wash out in 2015 when we see how many elites the new financial thresholds yield. Maybe just maybe it will work out.
I'm looking over the fence at AAUS to see what's going on with Doug Parker and his activities for 2015. I'll be a 1MM by then greatly reducing switching costs. If GPUs don't work well at UA in 2015 there's a switch coming.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Dec 1, 2013 at 5:00 am Reason: merge
Nov 30, 2013, 1:18 pm
#679
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
Jumping the queue is not one of them.
Anyone can jump the queue, there is no need for EF for that. All you have to do is call and request an upgrade when R is open and you'll jump ahead of all the elites who are languishing in the wait list and not getting upgraded. Or, just log into UA and apply an upgrade, when R is open. You'll again jump ahead of everyone in the wait list. These activities happen without EF, and they happen now.
Furthermore, even if the wait list worked reliably and consistently, EF alerts would still have a valuable function. It is totally legitimate to want to know when R space (or any other space) opens up.
Nov 30, 2013, 1:27 pm
#680
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: UA Plat 2MM. DL Plat, AS MVP
Posts: 12,751
Nov 30, 2013, 1:33 pm
#681
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,777
The problem was created by the new UA & their internal system and FT/blogs/... figured out how to exploit it using an existing online product.
Dec 4, 2013, 4:53 am
#682
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: UA MP 1K 1MM
Posts: 50
I received a reply from UA after I emailed expressing disappointment about the changes. I will not copy my whole email here but the key comments I made were
Excerpts from my email:
"This is a tremendous loss to me and will cost me hours of work time each day. Sure, the information I want to check is available on the UA web site using Expert Mode, but that requires me to to check each flight and each day one by one to locate upgrade availability. That is very inefficient." and "I don't know the arrangement between UA and EF, so I can't comment on the validity of the the explanation. But this change does not support the statement that UA is committed to transparency or timeliness of information. Provide a better tool, or an easier, time efficient way to get the information I need on your own web site, and I'll be happy to use it."
UA Response:
I regret you are disappointed with United's decision concerning Expert Flyer.
United issued cease and desist letters to certain mileage management companies that market to MileagePlus members. We encourage each of these organizations seeking to extract data from united.com on behalf of our customers to enter into a formal agreement with United in order to ensure compliance with the Terms, Conditions, and Legal Notices contained on united.com.
We appreciate your business and look forward to welcoming you on board a future United Airlines flight. Regards,
UA email response did nothing to address the core issue, which is that if UA provided the information or tools in a user friendly way, EF wouldn't be necessary (for this purpose).
Not surprising, but thought I'd share the UA reply.
Excerpts from my email:
"This is a tremendous loss to me and will cost me hours of work time each day. Sure, the information I want to check is available on the UA web site using Expert Mode, but that requires me to to check each flight and each day one by one to locate upgrade availability. That is very inefficient." and "I don't know the arrangement between UA and EF, so I can't comment on the validity of the the explanation. But this change does not support the statement that UA is committed to transparency or timeliness of information. Provide a better tool, or an easier, time efficient way to get the information I need on your own web site, and I'll be happy to use it."
UA Response:
I regret you are disappointed with United's decision concerning Expert Flyer.
United issued cease and desist letters to certain mileage management companies that market to MileagePlus members. We encourage each of these organizations seeking to extract data from united.com on behalf of our customers to enter into a formal agreement with United in order to ensure compliance with the Terms, Conditions, and Legal Notices contained on united.com.
We appreciate your business and look forward to welcoming you on board a future United Airlines flight. Regards,
UA email response did nothing to address the core issue, which is that if UA provided the information or tools in a user friendly way, EF wouldn't be necessary (for this purpose).
Not surprising, but thought I'd share the UA reply.
Dec 4, 2013, 5:38 am
#683
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,686
especially since the EF capabilities (inventory alerts) existed long before the merger or queue jumping SHARES issue existed.
The problem was created by the new UA & their internal system and FT/blogs/... figured out how to exploit it using an existing online product.
The problem was created by the new UA & their internal system and FT/blogs/... figured out how to exploit it using an existing online product.
Dec 4, 2013, 6:51 am
#684
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,166
Dec 4, 2013, 8:29 am
#685
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AADULtArer
Posts: 5,659
I received a reply from UA after I emailed expressing disappointment about the changes. I will not copy my whole email here but the key comments I made were
Excerpts from my email:
"This is a tremendous loss to me and will cost me hours of work time each day. Sure, the information I want to check is available on the UA web site using Expert Mode, but that requires me to to check each flight and each day one by one to locate upgrade availability. That is very inefficient." and "I don't know the arrangement between UA and EF, so I can't comment on the validity of the the explanation. But this change does not support the statement that UA is committed to transparency or timeliness of information. Provide a better tool, or an easier, time efficient way to get the information I need on your own web site, and I'll be happy to use it."
UA Response:
I regret you are disappointed with United's decision concerning Expert Flyer.
United issued cease and desist letters to certain mileage management companies that market to MileagePlus members. We encourage each of these organizations seeking to extract data from united.com on behalf of our customers to enter into a formal agreement with United in order to ensure compliance with the Terms, Conditions, and Legal Notices contained on united.com.
We appreciate your business and look forward to welcoming you on board a future United Airlines flight. Regards,
UA email response did nothing to address the core issue, which is that if UA provided the information or tools in a user friendly way, EF wouldn't be necessary (for this purpose).
Not surprising, but thought I'd share the UA reply.
Excerpts from my email:
"This is a tremendous loss to me and will cost me hours of work time each day. Sure, the information I want to check is available on the UA web site using Expert Mode, but that requires me to to check each flight and each day one by one to locate upgrade availability. That is very inefficient." and "I don't know the arrangement between UA and EF, so I can't comment on the validity of the the explanation. But this change does not support the statement that UA is committed to transparency or timeliness of information. Provide a better tool, or an easier, time efficient way to get the information I need on your own web site, and I'll be happy to use it."
UA Response:
I regret you are disappointed with United's decision concerning Expert Flyer.
United issued cease and desist letters to certain mileage management companies that market to MileagePlus members. We encourage each of these organizations seeking to extract data from united.com on behalf of our customers to enter into a formal agreement with United in order to ensure compliance with the Terms, Conditions, and Legal Notices contained on united.com.
We appreciate your business and look forward to welcoming you on board a future United Airlines flight. Regards,
UA email response did nothing to address the core issue, which is that if UA provided the information or tools in a user friendly way, EF wouldn't be necessary (for this purpose).
Not surprising, but thought I'd share the UA reply.
I think that should be the message to UA on this, fix upgrade system, then eliminate callin upgrades.
Dec 4, 2013, 8:29 am
#686
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northern Calif./Eastern Ida.
Programs: Amethyst Premier Plutonium Medallion
Posts: 20,629
UA Response:
I regret you are disappointed with United's decision concerning Expert Flyer.
United issued cease and desist letters to certain mileage management companies that market to MileagePlus members. We encourage each of these organizations seeking to extract data from united.com on behalf of our customers to enter into a formal agreement with United in order to ensure compliance with the Terms, Conditions, and Legal Notices contained on united.com.
We appreciate your business and look forward to welcoming you on board a future United Airlines flight. Regards,
UA email response did nothing to address the core issue, which is that if UA provided the information or tools in a user friendly way, EF wouldn't be necessary (for this purpose).
Not surprising, but thought I'd share the UA reply.
I regret you are disappointed with United's decision concerning Expert Flyer.
United issued cease and desist letters to certain mileage management companies that market to MileagePlus members. We encourage each of these organizations seeking to extract data from united.com on behalf of our customers to enter into a formal agreement with United in order to ensure compliance with the Terms, Conditions, and Legal Notices contained on united.com.
We appreciate your business and look forward to welcoming you on board a future United Airlines flight. Regards,
UA email response did nothing to address the core issue, which is that if UA provided the information or tools in a user friendly way, EF wouldn't be necessary (for this purpose).
Not surprising, but thought I'd share the UA reply.
either they can't (always possible with UA) or won't (more likely). it's been this way since the days of CO. nothing is going to change anytime soon. exploit the loophole to your advantage.
Dec 4, 2013, 9:00 am
#687
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
As for fixing the system, they have no interest in that. That's clear as can be. Rather than fix it, they just increase opacity so that we can't see how bad it is anymore.
Dec 4, 2013, 9:04 am
#688
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ORD / DUB / LHR
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA Silver; Marriott Plat
Posts: 8,243
People keep missing the point that alerts are legitimate even without the desire to queue jump. There can be cases in which R space opens and nobody is on a wait list and a flyer just wants to book to get the R space that opened. Simple, right?
As for fixing the system, they have no interest in that. That's clear as can be. Rather than fix it, they just increase opacity so that we can't see how bad it is anymore.
As for fixing the system, they have no interest in that. That's clear as can be. Rather than fix it, they just increase opacity so that we can't see how bad it is anymore.
The issue here is clearly with EF.
Dec 4, 2013, 9:13 am
#689
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
Many of us used EF to understand inventory in ways that are far easier and require dramatically less effort than using UA's web site.
Now that they blocked EF, it's a lot harder to find space with specific fare classes and virtually impossible to know when said space opens up.
Dec 4, 2013, 9:18 am
#690
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ORD / DUB / LHR
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA Silver; Marriott Plat
Posts: 8,243
They increased opacity by blocking EF.
Many of us used EF to understand inventory in ways that are far easier and require dramatically less effort than using UA's web site.
Now that they blocked EF, it's a lot harder to find space with specific fare classes and virtually impossible to know when said space opens up.
Many of us used EF to understand inventory in ways that are far easier and require dramatically less effort than using UA's web site.
Now that they blocked EF, it's a lot harder to find space with specific fare classes and virtually impossible to know when said space opens up.
EF was stealing the data from the UA site and charging users $10 a month to access it. Do you agree or disagree with this?
UA continues to make the data available in exactly the same way it did before.
If you'd been paying $10 a month to a Russian hacker who had found a back door into UA's systems and was providing alerts for R availability, who would you blame when it was discovered by UA and blocked? For that matter, why don't you use a service like this and pay someone $10 per month to do repetitive searches for you?