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Direct flights -- Why? What about Mileage Credit?

Old Jun 29, 2017, 2:01 pm
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Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Originally Posted by tlawrence85
'Direct' flights are not the same as non-stop flights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_flight

"A direct flight in the aviation industry is any flight between two points by an airline with no change in flight numbers, which may include a stop over at an intermediate point."
Non-Stop -- A flight between two airports with no stops / no other airport involved.

Direct flight -- a flight booked as a flight between two airports BUT will involve a scheduled connection (landing/departure) at another airport. The same plane may or may not be used for each segment of the flight. {On UA, generally does not involve the same aircraft and may use a different type of airplane}

Why done
  • So that the direct flight shows as a competitive option vs non-stops in third party online booking sites.
  • Conservation of flight numbers, due to shortage of 4-digit flight numbers, this allows for more flights without using more flight numbers

For UA, mileage credit is the same for a non-stop and a direct flight. You "lose" out of the extra flight miles.
With the change from credit being based on fare and not flight miles, there is no difference in earning method from direct flight vs non-stop
On PQFs, each segment counts as 1 PQF -- this is a change from how PQS was done
Possible resolution is to see if the direct flight can be split into the separate flight segments -- some times this is possible, other times it is not.

There can be seat assignment issues on direct flights especially if aircraft type is different.
Upgrades will not clear on direct flights in advance unless upgrade space is available on both flights. Gate upgrades will process based on the individual flights.


Related thread
Direct Flight Seat Selection Bug?

Selecting Seats/Upgrade Issues on Second Leg of "Direct" Flight Itinerary

Solution for seat assignment missing on direct flight

Upgrade Individual Flights on direct flight
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Direct flights -- Why? What about Mileage Credit?

Old Apr 29, 2013, 8:01 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by flyingnosh
With the exception of the island hopper, does UA still have direct flights where passengers can remain on board during the intermediate stop?
I was on a KOA-ORD a few weeks ago that had come from OGG (I think) and pax had stayed on-board.
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Old Apr 30, 2013, 10:31 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by flyingnosh
With the exception of the island hopper, does UA still have direct flights where passengers can remain on board during the intermediate stop?
I need to check but UA had a BOS-SFO flight which stopped in ORD briefly.

My co worker was on that flight and because the inbound BOS-ORD flight was delayed so much, they put everyone on a new plane and he got stranded in ORD without a flight.
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Old Apr 30, 2013, 10:57 am
  #18  
 
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Flight 4059 - IAD-AOO is one of those "direct" flights operated by United Express (Silver Airways) with a stop between at JST (15 minute stop, same aircraft; a Saab 340)
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Old Jul 1, 2013, 7:54 pm
  #19  
 
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UA is running low on flight numbers, so they're using them to build rather unusual direct flights. Overheard at Fort Lauderdale: "Welcome to flight 1241 with service to Newark and ongoing service to Tampa." Perhaps this could have been an opportunity for a mini MR...
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Old Jul 1, 2013, 7:59 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by flyingnosh
Perhaps this could have been an opportunity for a mini MR...
IIRC With direct flights you get the same mileage credit as the non-stop not the sum of the two segments. So in your example even if someone took 1241 from FLL to EWR and on to TPA they would only get the FLL-TPA credit.
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Old Jul 1, 2013, 8:08 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by flyingnosh
UA is running low on flight numbers, so they're using them to build rather unusual direct flights. Overheard at Fort Lauderdale: "Welcome to flight 1241 with service to Newark and ongoing service to Tampa." Perhaps this could have been an opportunity for a mini MR...
Originally Posted by kenn0223
IIRC With direct flights you get the same mileage credit as the non-stop not the sum of the two segments. So in your example even if someone took 1241 from FLL to EWR and on to TPA they would only get the FLL-TPA credit.
I've posted about this opportunity, but no one seems to be as much of a fare nerd as I am. There was one earlier this year that went JFK-LAX-EWR or something like that. If it's possible to SDC at the intermediate point, and if the SDC accomplishes the goal of obtaining full mileage, then they're great MR opportunities.
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Old Jul 1, 2013, 8:13 pm
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by mgcsinc
I've posted about this opportunity, but no one seems to be as much of a fare nerd as I am. There was one earlier this year that went JFK-LAX-EWR or something like that. If it's possible to SDC at the intermediate point, and if the SDC accomplishes the goal of obtaining full mileage, then they're great MR opportunities.
Or you call up and split the segments, you sometimes need to pay an extra couple of bucks segment tax but you get the full mileage credit.
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Old Jul 1, 2013, 8:18 pm
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by alex_b
Or you call up and split the segments, you sometimes need to pay an extra couple of bucks segment tax but you get the full mileage credit.
The problem with this approach is that I'm unwilling to talk to a human being about the JFK-LAX-EWR flight I bought.
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Old Jul 2, 2013, 7:21 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by NetBrowser07
Searching for award space on United.. I see a number of 'direct flights' with 'Time on ground - Change planes' listed. How is that not a 1-stopper?
The two aircraft carry the same flight number. "Direct" means "same flight number" and nothing else.

Originally Posted by jmastron
I think the point was that on WN at least direct means "same plane", so you can stay onboard and generally won't miss a connection (though that's not guaranteed) -- other airlines (like UA) use the same flight number even when you must exit and connect to a completely different plane, which IMHO is just dishonest...
Actually with WN 'direct' means no change of gauge, but only because WN operates only 737's, albeit of varying model age etc. Most of them are indeed the same aircraft but by no means all.

I understand the frustration people find with the terminology. I am not trying to defend the use either, but only point out that as was said upthread, the practice predates airplanes when it was used in railroads.

Thus, it seems a bit harsh to me to call that dishonest just because many people have forgotten what the words mean if they ever knew. It is sad that many airline employees and travel agents now don't know the difference themselves.

It would be easier if the two words could continue to be used in their original meanings. It seems useful to me to have the distinction, not least because of sector counts and direct vs segment mileage credit. For taht reason I rarely book direct flights when I can book connecting non-stops instead. Only if the direct is cheaper do I consider it.

Last edited by iluv2fly; Jul 2, 2013 at 11:18 am Reason: merge
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Old Jul 2, 2013, 8:16 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by jbcarioca

I understand the frustration people find with the terminology. I am not trying to defend the use either, but only point out that as was said upthread, the practice predates airplanes when it was used in railroads.
In passenger rail, did direct trains ever entail pax changing to a different physical train? Or leaving their passenger car to reboard the same passenger car?

I suspect not. The passenger car might have been coupled to another or additional locomotive.

It has been decades since on a direct flight I was able to stay on board during a scheduled stop. It has been years since on a direct flight I reboarded the same plane after a scheduled stop.
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Old Jul 2, 2013, 8:27 am
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by jbcarioca
Actually with WN 'direct' means no change of gauge, but only because WN operates only 737's, albeit of varying model age etc. Most of them are indeed the same aircraft but by no means all.
I thought it meant no change of plane on WN?
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Old Jul 2, 2013, 8:42 am
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by mre5765
In passenger rail, did direct trains ever entail pax changing to a different physical train? Or leaving their passenger car to reboard the same passenger car?

I suspect not. The passenger car might have been coupled to another or additional locomotive.

It has been decades since on a direct flight I was able to stay on board during a scheduled stop. It has been years since on a direct flight I reboarded the same plane after a scheduled stop.
I don't know if the Orient Express was marketed as "direct", but with a single name, it seems like they were marketing it as a single product. It currently (and throughout most of it's history) is made up of numerous lines and equipment. I was on a leg from Bucharest to Istanbul, and they had to change locomotives in Bulgaria (same passenger cars though) and that was still considered the same line (as opposed to where you actually switch trains along the way at other points.)
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Old Jul 2, 2013, 10:32 am
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by mre5765
In passenger rail, did direct trains ever entail pax changing to a different physical train? Or leaving their passenger car to reboard the same passenger car?

I suspect not. The passenger car might have been coupled to another or additional locomotive

...
I hope someone can answer this question definitively. I know in some cases it did happen, involving "change of gauge", hence the term. I do not know but I suspect that was fairly rare except when crossing national borders with different gauges. Now I am curious, so I will try to research it unless someone does know the correct answer.
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Old Jul 2, 2013, 10:52 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by mgcsinc
I thought it meant no change of plane on WN?
I think in theory it does -- as intended in the schedule at least. There may be operational reasons to swap planes around; the one time that happened on a flight I was on (a few years ago, was boarding at the intermediate point), they announced that they were delaying boarding even though our plane was there, and when the inbound arrived, those through passengers would be allowed to board first, which seemed fair.

I know there are cases where a real same-plane direct flight has to be changed, sometimes with the outbound leaving before the inbound arrives, but I still call it dishonest to schedule it that way in the first place, making it no better than any other separate-flight connection (and sometimes worse, depending on mileage earning, upgrade ability, etc).
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Old Jul 3, 2013, 2:35 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by jbcarioca
I hope someone can answer this question definitively. I know in some cases it did happen, involving "change of gauge", hence the term. I do not know but I suspect that was fairly rare except when crossing national borders with different gauges. Now I am curious, so I will try to research it unless someone does know the correct answer.
I stand corrected , it was the Bosphorus Express, and it doesn't change guage, it changes from electric at 1 Bulgaria border (Turkey) to diesel, and then back to eletric at the other Bulgaria border (Romania.) So I do remember never having to change cars, but I do recall the stopping for switching of locomotoives. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus_Express
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