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Why does everybody hate on the UA BF product?

Why does everybody hate on the UA BF product?

Old Aug 25, 2013, 8:52 am
  #16  
 
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Recently on PMUA BF in a rear facing seat in 7C, I was dazzled by the LED light by the passenger in 9B. Time to break out the eye shades....
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 9:00 am
  #17  
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Why does everybody hate on the UA BF product?

Because the whole BF name is ludicrous. It's a business class seat and there's no need for any reference to First in there.
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 9:06 am
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by glasnost7
I think both seats have their merits. Both have provided me a good night's rest on many occasions, though I prefer the sUA seat if I have to choose.

Where they missed the mark was by not configuring the cabin like BA did on the wide bodies. The alternating forward and rear seating means that everyone has aisle access and there are only 6 pairs of seats that face the same direction.

All of the other big carriers are accommodating aisle access in their biz cabins with their updates, while still avoiding a waste of real estate. One thing both sUA and sCO biz cabins have in common: stepping over your neighbor to get out.
I am sure other airlines would love to copy BA's configuration. Alas, they have patented the ying-yang layout.
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 9:25 am
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by Xyzzy
FWIW, I rather like the BF seats. I also don't know what all of the fuss is about with aisle access. Yes -- I'd rather not have to step over someone, but that certainly beats some of the truly awful layuts and seats I've experienced (witness AC). Besides, when flying with someone it is nice to have the opportunity to sit next to my travelling companion. That could be done with no climb-over in a 1-2-1 layout, but on most aircraft that does not seem practical for the airlines from an operational perspective.
Why do you feel that the AC J seats and/or the layout are truly awful? I've flown that product from HKG to YVR, YYZ to SCL, and SCL to YYZ, and found them to be nice although perhaps not quite as comfortable as NZ's J seats with the same basic design. I would rate the NZ BP J hard product much higher than either of UA's current BF seats, and AC J a notch below, but I don't place a lot of value on being able to look out the window on long overnight flights, which all of my flights in AC or NZ long haul have been.
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 9:32 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by SFOTurtle
Why do you feel that the AC J seats and/or the layout are truly awful?
Why? Because the whole open/close the screen dance was irritating. The fact I couldn't really access the window and that it was nwhere near as comfortable as the UA seat. That's just the start. At least the on-board service was good.
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 9:35 am
  #21  
 
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pmCO BF is great, and pmUA biz seats are decent for a night's sleep. For those appalled at having to climb over someone to get out - really? Have you taken the subway before? You'll probably get up 2-3 times in the flight and your seatmate completely understands, so just climb over and calm down. All is ok

I agree that the food menus could do with a revamp but the seats themselves are solid and a far cry from non lie-flat products like the old UA seats, AA's current seats (not on the rare 77W), etc.
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 10:04 am
  #22  
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Why does everybody hate on the UA BF product?

For paid C you expect more than what COdbaUA gives you.

For paid Y + GPU it is just smack talk. Sure SQ is better but they are more difficult to access from Y.
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 10:22 am
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by uastarflyer
For paid C you expect more than what COdbaUA gives you.

For paid Y + GPU it is just smack talk. Sure SQ is better but they are more difficult to access from Y.
I think that this is 100% on target. If you paid for C on UA you are getting ripped off compared to almost all of the competition. Food/drink is substandard, and don't get me started on the [lousy] coffee and equally bad expresso pods they have on the sCO birds.

If you are just looking at the seats, I think it comes down to body type. the sCO seats (especially on the retrofit 763 2-class) are too short with the small footwell, and the shoulder is narrow. I have big feet, wide shoulders and am 6'2" and can't sleep in them. I will not book them. The sUA seats are too narrow, but at least I can sleep on my back in them. Someone who is smaller may like the sCO seat better.

But if you want to pay for Y, get C, then UA or AA are your options.

I might also add that UA is in a low point with many of its elites (and the yeild and revenue numbers clearly show this). While neither seat are horrible (they are both better than the old DL or AA seats that are being pulled now) and the fleet is all lie flat, the decline in soft product and poor treatment in IRROPS and generally of elites impacts peoples percetion of the product overall. This comes at a time when both DL and AA (not to mention other airlines) are working to improve their product. Hard to see any improvement coming at UAL, its a race to the bottom. In every survey that is published UA (and US) are at the bottom and that is reflective of the reality of UAL today.

Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Aug 25, 2013 at 11:41 am Reason: mind your language, please
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 10:38 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by spin88
This comes at a time when both DL and AA (not to mention other airlines) are working to improve their product. Hard to see any improvement coming at UAL...
What do you call the J/C refurb over the last few years? AA's product improvements will take a while and many will be rolling the dice on whether they get a fully flat seat or not. On UA, they're ahead of the other (US) carrier, IMO.
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 11:04 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by seanp7
What do you call the J/C refurb over the last few years? AA's product improvements will take a while and many will be rolling the dice on whether they get a fully flat seat or not. On UA, they're ahead of the other (US) carrier, IMO.
I am talking about things that have occurred under Jeff, aka "changes you will like." The sCO and sUA business class upgrades (IPTE on UA) were well underway, with UA having done all 744/763s and started the 777s when the merger happened.

I don't give management credit for these anymore than I given them credit for having ordered the 787 first (Kellner did that, and for reasons having nothing to do with how the airline is now run). UAL is standing still at this point, its competition is not.

Also I don't know how "hit or miss" it is. DL has retrofitted entirely several of their fleets with a far far better hard product, and DL has better soft product. Since I know the routes that this is on, if I am buying J on those routes, I would prefer to take DL. Ditto the AA 77W routes.

But overall, the ONLY thing that UA has going for it is (1) more lie flats (an advantage that is wasting away, and any advantage that they have in (2) network or (3) MP. Its is hard to see the inflight package on UAL (either sCO or sUA) being particularly enticing if you are paying for F/C unless you are focused on getting GS.
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 11:30 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by dsquared37
Because the whole BF name is ludicrous. It's a business class seat and there's no need for any reference to First in there.
That's true - it is a business seat, nothing more.

Originally Posted by seanp7
What do you call the J/C refurb over the last few years? AA's product improvements will take a while and many will be rolling the dice on whether they get a fully flat seat or not. On UA, they're ahead of the other (US) carrier, IMO.
DL currently offers all aisle access on its 747, 777, most of their 767, and some of their A330s. Unless you enjoy having to step over your seatmate when he/she is sleeping, that configuration is clearly better than the current UA configuration sCO or sUA. Yes, AA is lagging on updating their C product, but they are shifting to all-aisle access as well. When DL and AA are complete, UA will not have a competitive C product by comparison.

Last edited by iluv2fly; Aug 25, 2013 at 1:58 pm Reason: merge
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 11:50 am
  #27  
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Originally Posted by dsquared37
Because the whole BF name is ludicrous. It's a business class seat and there's no need for any reference to First in there.
The name dates from the 90s when CO did away with F. At the time the lounger they put in Business (with 55 inches pitch) was in the same ballpark as what most airlines were offering in international First (55-62 inch pitch loungers). Additionally the service from the cart appetizers and desert was more akin to the standard of First Class international at that time, hence CO named the service BusinessFirst.
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 12:38 pm
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by seanp7
pmCO BF is great, and pmUA biz seats are decent for a night's sleep. For those appalled at having to climb over someone to get out - really? Have you taken the subway before? You'll probably get up 2-3 times in the flight and your seatmate completely understands, so just climb over and calm down. All is ok

I agree that the food menus could do with a revamp but the seats themselves are solid and a far cry from non lie-flat products like the old UA seats, AA's current seats (not on the rare 77W), etc.
Exactly. If you want to complain about stepping over your seatmate, recall the contortions we had to go through to escape the window seat when the aisle seat in the row ahead was fully reclined. You had to be a ninth degree yogi and even then ended up about 2 inches away from your seatmate's face. With the lie flats, it's simple: just put your foot rest down, stand up, and step over. If you've got a bum hip or are a POS, you should go for the aisle seat. Otherwise, no prob.

As for the topic at hand, put me firmly in the pmCO camp. In addition to the other pmUA beefs (4 across, really? flying backwards?), there really is NO storage room, which is problematic when you need to work on a computer with access to papers, etc. Not much with the pmCO seats, but at least there's some.
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 12:54 pm
  #29  
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Originally Posted by elitetraveler
The name dates from the 90s when CO did away with F. At the time the lounger they put in Business (with 55 inches pitch) was in the same ballpark as what most airlines were offering in international First (55-62 inch pitch loungers). Additionally the service from the cart appetizers and desert was more akin to the standard of First Class international at that time, hence CO named the service BusinessFirst.
I'm sure it was a great name for those times. Using now though is just silly.
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 1:04 pm
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC
I'm sure it was a great name for those times. Using now though is just silly.
BusinessFirst is a far more appropriate moniker than the domestic First product. But i understand that it takes time and investment to change the branding of something, and for now imo there are other areas united could be focusing investment.
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