Upgrade Shenanigans? [Consolidated] {Archive}
Jun 10, 2019, 4:58 pm
#796
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,852
At a point you are going to run into privacy issues -- as the seat of the individual is noted. Releasing info on their status, the method they used to upgrade, and other personal data is going to run into major issues. UA is more transparent than others and releasing more personal information is unlikely.
Jun 10, 2019, 5:22 pm
#797
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
Programs: 1K (since 2008), *G (since 1990), 1MM
Posts: 3,219
UA984, CDG > SFO, June 6th - Premium Plus @ T-24 has 7 seats available, #2 on upgrade list (Polaris almost full and a no hope as usual), @ T-20 bumped to #7 as 5 names added, shortly thereafter the "new" 5 clear into PP. A quick check of fare classes showed PZ = 0 and the seat map shows no change - I was in a middle seat and hoping to move - no seat assignments opened up. Strange me thinks, did 5 PZ seats magically open - I was watching like a hawk and at check-in PZ = 0. #1 clears in PP just before boarding and then someone from the Polaris list clears into the last seat, they were never on the PP upgrade list, they must have declined that option but somehow jumped ahead of my GPU after Polaris filed up. Left at #1 - at least the GA was able to find me an aisle seat. Got to see the FA seat map while she was doing drinks service and none of the "5" were showing any status - only 3 1Ks in PP and 2 were cleared at the gate. How do pax without status get added to upgrade lists ahead of 1Ks using GPUs? That's not how I read the priority list. Asked the FA if they were non-revs but she wouldn't answer. Emailed 1KVoice and got a generic response ignoring the problem. Upgrade shenanigans? I think so.
There may well be a great explanation that makes perfect sense but to you and me (my most recent examples were SFO-FRA @ #1 and SFO-SYD @ #2 ) the way it appears does not make sense to those of us who are watching like a hawk to see if our upgrade clears. Now if I were #10 would not be watching as know no chance at all so who cares if there were shenanigans or not.
I also suspect that presently there is also the change to the upgrade system that may be adversely impacting all this, but again without transparency have no idea if this is factual - just a hunch. Yes, I understand privacy concerns but sometimes the semi-optics just make it feel less than correct.
On the bright side LH upgraded me (surprise and delight!) two weeks ago (after my failed SFO-FRA upgrade) with no certificate and perhaps there may some LH FF who got nixed for an upgrade but I would have no idea as no visibility what so ever.
Jun 10, 2019, 5:28 pm
#798
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,405
1 - Passengers won't show up on the list until they check in, so it's not the least bit unusual to go from #2 to #7 on the list at T-20 hours.
2 - In this case, more importantly: the system does not seem to have been updated since R became a paid class of service (it's the least expensive premium economy bucket). It's my experience so far that every passenger in R appears as a cleared upgrade to P+, despite the fact that they didn't upgrade.
3 - If I've misunderstood, and you're complaining about people clearing to Polaris -- a general member who paid for P+ has upgrade priority, using any upgrade instrument (e.g., miles + copay), over a 1K who paid for Y.
4 - In re: #3 -- if they're on a paid R fare in particular, it looks like they cleared from Y to P+ and then again from P+ to J; in fact, they would only have cleared from P+ to J in this scenario.
Jun 10, 2019, 5:45 pm
#799
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: UA 1K 2MM
Posts: 86
It's my experience so far that every passenger in R appears as a cleared upgrade to P+, despite the fact that they didn't upgrade.
I was not aware of this. Perhaps these were purchased seats but due to system issues appear as upgrade shenanigans. There again, if it were such a simple explanation why would 1KVoice simply not say so. Not a great showing by UA either way. Winding flyers up with incorrect information would not be a preferred business practice.
I was not aware of this. Perhaps these were purchased seats but due to system issues appear as upgrade shenanigans. There again, if it were such a simple explanation why would 1KVoice simply not say so. Not a great showing by UA either way. Winding flyers up with incorrect information would not be a preferred business practice.
Jun 10, 2019, 6:05 pm
#800
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CLE, DCA, and 30k feet
Programs: Honors LT Diamond; United 1K; Hertz PC
Posts: 4,162
I found this post rather difficult to understand, so please forgive me if I've gotten some of the details wrong. However, if I understand it correctly, what you're saying is that you were seated in Y, hoping to upgrade to either P+ or J.
1 - Passengers won't show up on the list until they check in, so it's not the least bit unusual to go from #2 to #7 on the list at T-20 hours.
2 - In this case, more importantly: the system does not seem to have been updated since R became a paid class of service (it's the least expensive premium economy bucket). It's my experience so far that every passenger in R appears as a cleared upgrade to P+, despite the fact that they didn't upgrade.
3 - If I've misunderstood, and you're complaining about people clearing to Polaris -- a general member who paid for P+ has upgrade priority, using any upgrade instrument (e.g., miles + copay), over a 1K who paid for Y.
4 - In re: #3 -- if they're on a paid R fare in particular, it looks like they cleared from Y to P+ and then again from P+ to J; in fact, they would only have cleared from P+ to J in this scenario.
1 - Passengers won't show up on the list until they check in, so it's not the least bit unusual to go from #2 to #7 on the list at T-20 hours.
2 - In this case, more importantly: the system does not seem to have been updated since R became a paid class of service (it's the least expensive premium economy bucket). It's my experience so far that every passenger in R appears as a cleared upgrade to P+, despite the fact that they didn't upgrade.
3 - If I've misunderstood, and you're complaining about people clearing to Polaris -- a general member who paid for P+ has upgrade priority, using any upgrade instrument (e.g., miles + copay), over a 1K who paid for Y.
4 - In re: #3 -- if they're on a paid R fare in particular, it looks like they cleared from Y to P+ and then again from P+ to J; in fact, they would only have cleared from P+ to J in this scenario.
1- Especially since those with higher fares/higher status also tend to check in later for various reasons (don't care, higher probability of plans changing, International I tend to check in as early as possible because I'm also usually on firm plans and a low fare (e.g. usually vacation or my favorite NGO who books the cheapest ticket they can find for me) but domestic when I'm usually on a B or better fare there's absolutely no reason for me to check in early.
2- Yep. On my last PP flight flown in PP, booked in R, I started at T-24 as #1 on the PP>J list -- and it looked as if I "cleared" into PP even though that's what I bought. As the time got closer I dropped to #3 and #1 and #2 were also showing as cleared into PP however based on other data I mined about the flight and the seats they cleared out of those passengers had also purchased R.
Jun 10, 2019, 6:07 pm
#801
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,405
I was not aware of this. Perhaps these were purchased seats but due to system issues appear as upgrade shenanigans. There again, if it were such a simple explanation why would 1KVoice simply not say so. Not a great showing by UA either way. Winding flyers up with incorrect information would not be a preferred business practice.
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Jun 10, 2019, 7:07 pm
#802
Join Date: Nov 2014
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 1,679
I would say the question is already answered. Full transparency. This person got into this seat for this reason. Delta is very bad about this as well. Their standby lists includes everyone, including basic economy passengers without seat assignments. There is no way to tell who is who or why this or that happened. Just my 2 cents..
Jun 10, 2019, 7:28 pm
#803
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 46
So would it make you feel better if UA wrote that the person who "skipped" you is a GS that spends $150,000 and flies 600,000 miles a year who misconnected so UA is rebooking them onto your flight because their flight is delayed and would miss their connection to their destinatiob? Would that make you feel okay or upset because your 1K status is less valued?
Jun 10, 2019, 9:30 pm
#804
Join Date: Nov 2014
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 1,679
I just don't think upgrade shenangians are a serious issue, the key strokes of every employee are logged and the employees know it. If you are concerned something occured write in.
Jun 10, 2019, 11:13 pm
#805
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
Jun 10, 2019, 11:17 pm
#806
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
Programs: 1K (since 2008), *G (since 1990), 1MM
Posts: 3,219
I try to save writing in for important things these days. The flight is over and done with. In the past when I have written in I get an apology and sorry but nothing we can do now. Waste of time IMO.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jun 10, 2019 at 11:43 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
Jun 11, 2019, 1:21 am
#807
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: PNS
Programs: DL FO, UA, AA
Posts: 700
I agree here. If a seat was given to a GS and it was shown in the app/website as that is how they earned whatever I would have no problem with it at all(can be easily done without privacy issues). They deserve their loyalty. As long as it was transparent I would have no issue. For some folks it would want to make them earn loyalty. Damn I wish I was a GS what can I do to get there type of stuff, or what can I do to get myself higher on the list than I am. All marketing.. People eat this stuff up..
Jun 11, 2019, 5:32 am
#808
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PWM
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 1,335
Edit: I have a friend on the inside and from time to time I'll say "I don't suspect anything but could you look into xyz?" I'm sure we've all been there! Curiosity ya know?
Jun 11, 2019, 7:59 am
#809
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,454
Upgrade shenanigans on UA are IMO not a meaningful concern. IT failures are another story. Sometimes the IT failure is just a display problem (which leads to a suspicion of shenanigans), sometimes an IT failure actually results in mis-processed upgrades (which also leads to suspicion of shenanigans).
I don't see the need for more transparency. I would like to see the IT fixed though.
Jun 11, 2019, 9:09 am
#810
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 46
I don't have any reason to doubt your view but I can certainly understand the other side. It's the halfway transparency that creates the issue. What is transparent (via app or on the screen at the gate) in many of these cases is that one is high on upgrade list with seemingly enough available seats but not upgraded. It's natural for people to expect that the available queue is followed or to want to understand why the list was superseded. A little more transparency about why the list wasn't accurate or followed isn't unreasonable IMO, even if it's never going to happen.