Upgrade Shenanigans? [Consolidated]

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Old Jun 11, 19, 9:09 am
  #661  
 
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Originally Posted by N104UA View Post
I just don't think upgrade shenangians are a serious issue, the key strokes of every employee are logged and the employees know it. If you are concerned something occured write in.
I don't have any reason to doubt your view but I can certainly understand the other side. It's the halfway transparency that creates the issue. What is transparent (via app or on the screen at the gate) in many of these cases is that one is high on upgrade list with seemingly enough available seats but not upgraded. It's natural for people to expect that the available queue is followed or to want to understand why the list was superseded. A little more transparency about why the list wasn't accurate or followed isn't unreasonable IMO, even if it's never going to happen.
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Old Jun 11, 19, 9:37 am
  #662  
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Originally Posted by Yaddablahblah View Post
It's natural for people to expect that the available queue is followed or to want to understand why the list was superseded.
A very high percentage of the time, the issue isn't the list being "superseded"; it's that people don't understand how the list works. That is demonstrated time and again in this thread.
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Old Jun 11, 19, 9:40 am
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Originally Posted by Kacee View Post
A very high percentage of the time, the issue isn't the list being "superseded"; it's that people don't understand how the list works. That is demonstrated time and again in this thread.
UA would probably do themselves a favor by listing all passengers on the list, whether they’ve checked in or not — but that still wouldn’t account for SDCs or last-minute purchases.

Honestly, the more people complain about the way the list works, the greater UA’s motivation to hide the whole thing.
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Old Jun 11, 19, 10:24 am
  #664  
 
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
Honestly, the more people complain about the way the list works, the greater UA’s motivation to hide the whole thing.
Exactly! Take what you can get, 10 years ago you didn't know if you were #1 or number #55 on the upgrade list. UA provides a fair amount of info IMHO and way more than many airlines. UA could very easily get rid of the lists and in the app show you that you either have a high, medium, or low chance of your upgrade cleaning, then you have no idea where you finally ended up on the list.

I also do think that UA could do itself a favor by only displaying the names that have a possibility to upgrade, for instance if there are only 12 F seats don't show more than #1-12 and then as F boards start dropping people from the list, so if 10 people have boarded only show #1-2. When there are only 12 seats what does it matter to a silver if they are #20 or #65 on the upgrade list?
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Old Jun 11, 19, 10:34 am
  #665  
 
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Originally Posted by N104UA View Post
When there are only 12 seats what does it matter to a silver if they are #20 or #65 on the upgrade list?
None — but tell that to the gate agent who has to explain to 63 passengers why their names don’t appear on the upgrade list.
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Old Jun 11, 19, 10:38 am
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Originally Posted by N104UA View Post
Exactly! Take what you can get, 10 years ago you didn't know if you were #1 or number #55 on the upgrade list. UA provides a fair amount of info IMHO and way more than many airlines. UA could very easily get rid of the lists and in the app show you that you either have a high, medium, or low chance of your upgrade cleaning, then you have no idea where you finally ended up on the list.

I also do think that UA could do itself a favor by only displaying the names that have a possibility to upgrade, for instance if there are only 12 F seats don't show more than #1 -12 and then as F boards start dropping people from the list, so if 10 people have boarded only show #1 -2. When there are only 12 seats what does it matter to a silver if they are #20 or #65 on the upgrade list?
Except previously you would have folks approach the GAs to ensure they were on the upgrade list (to this day some of us are not on the list when we should be) and then ask what number we are. A silver may not appreciate how far down the list they may actually be.

As someone upthread mentioned the IT appears to have a number of deficiencies in this area so the transparency assists with fewer questions asked of GAs and if I am more than a couple of folks down on the upgrade list I know I am on the list (correctly) and have no chance of the upgrade and can plan appropriately without needing to bug the poor GA.
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Old Jun 11, 19, 11:26 am
  #667  
 
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I suspect the list as currently constituted serves as a great marketing tool to motivate pax to purchase the TOD upgrades...
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Old Jun 11, 19, 12:37 pm
  #668  
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Originally Posted by AeRoSpaceman View Post
.... If a seat was given to a GS and it was shown in the app/website as that is how they earned whatever I would have no problem with it at all(can be easily done without privacy issues). ....
That is apriori a privacy issue. You know the last to clear (as you have been watching), their seat number, part of their name, their status, ...
While some may disclose their status by early boarding, that is their choice and there is no reason for UA to disclose status or other factors publicly.

Originally Posted by Kacee View Post
Concur. It's a firing offense and the GAs know everything they do can be tracked.

Upgrade shenanigans on UA are IMO not a meaningful concern. ....
Unless there is a clear pattern someone else has observed, there has not been a significant amount of shenangians reported to even bother worrying about.

Originally Posted by Aussienarelle View Post
Because without transparency it looks like shenanigans. ....
you think it may be but do we really need to reveal private info to change your mistaken speculation?

Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
Honestly, the more people complain about the way the list works, the greater UA’s motivation to hide the whole thing.
That would be the standard corporate response -- too much grief and the fix would be even more grief (GDPR anyone).
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Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jun 11, 19 at 12:44 pm
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Old Jun 16, 19, 6:29 pm
  #669  
 
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA View Post
That is apriori a privacy issue. You know the last to clear (as you have been watching), their seat number, part of their name, their status, ...
While some may disclose their status by early boarding, that is their choice and there is no reason for UA to disclose status or other factors publicly.
So what? As you note, UA already discloses their name and seat assignment so I don't think status is beyond the pale. If they don't like it, they can fly another airline.

As an aside, I was once sitting in F on a A319 PWM-ORD and I struck up conversation with my neighbor. I commented that they had paid cash for their ticket and they seemed surprised. Well there were 7 people cleared on the upgrade list including myself so as a simple matter of deduction...
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Old Jun 16, 19, 7:01 pm
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Originally Posted by sexykitten7 View Post
As an aside, I was once sitting in F on a A319 PWM-ORD and I struck up conversation with my neighbor. I commented that they had paid cash for their ticket and they seemed surprised. Well there were 7 people cleared on the upgrade list including myself so as a simple matter of deduction...
And I suspect that's more than a small part of the reason UA has removed a significant level of transparency by masking UGs that clear before the airport fro the list.

I've been on both sides of the full list though -- both the only UG to clear amongst a sea of paids and the reverse. Though I tend to apply the laws of non-reving to upgrades, e.g. don't discuss the fact they you didn't pay for your ticket with someone who likely has as no good can typically come from it.
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Old Jun 17, 19, 12:10 am
  #671  
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Originally Posted by sexykitten7 View Post
So what? As you note, UA already discloses their name and seat assignment so I don't think status is beyond the pale. If they don't like it, they can fly another airline.

As an aside, I was once sitting in F on a A319 PWM-ORD and I struck up conversation with my neighbor. I commented that they had paid cash for their ticket and they seemed surprised. Well there were 7 people cleared on the upgrade list including myself so as a simple matter of deduction...
Cash as opposed to upgrade? Couldn't it have been miles?
Either way, it's a weird thing to say to a neighbor on board, no?
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Old Jun 17, 19, 12:15 am
  #672  
 
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Originally Posted by sexykitten7 View Post
So what? As you note, UA already discloses their name and seat assignment so I don't think status is beyond the pale. If they don't like it, they can fly another airline.
Why should UA risk alienating even one customer over something like this? The current system is already enough to raise the ire of some “Paid First” customers who think that upgraders are beneath contempt. (Heck: even some upgraders treat non-revs that way).

There’s a lack of internal consistency here: if one doesn’t trust that the system is working properly, why would that person trust the display of any of this information?

Again, UA is far, far ahead of the curve in upgrade transparency compared to just about any other airline. Any change they make will likely be to our detriment (see: the recent change to hide CPUs that cleared prior to T-24).
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Old Jul 15, 19, 1:36 am
  #673  
 
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I'm not usually one to call shenanigans, but I can't find a good explanation for what happened to me on UA 960 (EWR-FRA) last night.

On my way to the gate at T-60 I was happy to see that I was #1 on the Polaris list, with one open seat. Boarding was a bit delayed, so I approached the gate agent about it and he told me that he'd clear upgrades at about T-15 and that I should just board and he would find me on board. A second gate agent, who confirmed that I was at the top of the list, added that they were having some issue with this last seat because the captain was insisting that he maintain access to it (does the 787-10 have a crew rest area?), and that without access to the seat he would not be flying the plane (GA's words, not mine). She said they were working to resolve the "issue" and that they would come on to upgrade me. So, I go ahead and board and a few minutes after boarding I refresh the app to find out that someone else (FLA, J) has been upgraded into the last remaining seat (10F).

I have a screenshot that shows me at the top of the list at T-50 (so after the minimum check-in time), with one seat remaining. I also have a screenshot from ~T-25, when I refreshed the app that shows one more person upgraded, and me still at #1 .

Reviewing what I can from the upgrade lists that I have, it looks as though FLA, J had cleared into Premium Plus (or was booked into PP), but was not in the top 9 of the Polaris upgrade list.

Any thoughts on what happened here??

Last edited by GBadger; Jul 15, 19 at 1:49 am
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Old Jul 15, 19, 4:30 am
  #674  
 
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Originally Posted by GBadger View Post
I'm not usually one to call shenanigans, but I can't find a good explanation for what happened to me on UA 960 (EWR-FRA) last night.

On my way to the gate at T-60 I was happy to see that I was #1 on the Polaris list, with one open seat. Boarding was a bit delayed, so I approached the gate agent about it and he told me that he'd clear upgrades at about T-15 and that I should just board and he would find me on board. A second gate agent, who confirmed that I was at the top of the list, added that they were having some issue with this last seat because the captain was insisting that he maintain access to it (does the 787-10 have a crew rest area?), and that without access to the seat he would not be flying the plane (GA's words, not mine). She said they were working to resolve the "issue" and that they would come on to upgrade me. So, I go ahead and board and a few minutes after boarding I refresh the app to find out that someone else (FLA, J) has been upgraded into the last remaining seat (10F).

I have a screenshot that shows me at the top of the list at T-50 (so after the minimum check-in time), with one seat remaining. I also have a screenshot from ~T-25, when I refreshed the app that shows one more person upgraded, and me still at #1 .

Reviewing what I can from the upgrade lists that I have, it looks as though FLA, J had cleared into Premium Plus (or was booked into PP), but was not in the top 9 of the Polaris upgrade list.

Any thoughts on what happened here??
FLA, J made the last minute decision to buy up to Polaris? That seems most likely to me.
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Old Jul 15, 19, 5:31 am
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Originally Posted by FlyngSvyr View Post
FLA, J made the last minute decision to buy up to Polaris? That seems most likely to me.
Would they show up on the “cleared” list? In my (limited) experience buy-ups don’t show up on the upgrade list as cleared.
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