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Any plans to rebuild the UA concourse (C and D gates & UX terminal) at IAD / Dulles?

Any plans to rebuild the UA concourse (C and D gates & UX terminal) at IAD / Dulles?

Old Jul 15, 13, 3:26 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by looktowindward View Post
The contract [for Metrorail extension] has now been awarded for the last phase of this project. Delivery in summer 2018. It has already reached Reston. Next...
I don't think that the completion of Metro is going to get Smisek to make any improvements. However, if you think it is getting too crowded at IAD, here is a useful contact:

Lt. Mike Taylor
Loudoun County Fire Marshall - Code Enforcement
[email protected]

I bet he could give United a kick in the pants.
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Old Jul 15, 13, 3:48 pm
  #32  
 
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I'm actually surprised that MWAA has a big "future C/D terminal" mural at the base of the C gates aerotrain station. IMO they don't need to be advertising projects they can't afford, much less one that no one seems to want to invest in.
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Old Jul 15, 13, 4:24 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by ua653flyer View Post
I'm actually surprised that MWAA has a big "future C/D terminal" mural at the base of the C gates aerotrain station. IMO they don't need to be advertising projects they can't afford, much less one that no one seems to want to invest in.
They have to have something up to explain why the train stops well past the C concourse, making people walk back to the existing gates.

I suppose they could advertise it as the Dulles contribution to helping America exercise more, but I doubt that would be a winning move.
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Old Jul 15, 13, 4:33 pm
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by IAD22066 View Post
I don't think that the completion of Metro is going to get Smisek to make any improvements. However, if you think it is getting too crowded at IAD, here is a useful contact:

Lt. Mike Taylor
Loudoun County Fire Marshall - Code Enforcement
[email protected]

I bet he could give United a kick in the pants.
I need to find a similar contact for EWR Terminal A when it is raining...or there is rain in the area...or it might rain at some point in the month.
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Old Jul 15, 13, 4:53 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewwm View Post
Old UA couldn't justify it either

The terminals were meant to be temporary when they were build in 1982.

The question has always been about money. Building a new set of terminals is likely to cost billions, which means all IAD-based fliers will be paying higher fares to pay it off for many, many years once it happens.



Daily mainline departures from UA are about the same as pre-merger. It is true a couple of hub-hub routes no longer have widebodies, but on the other hand IAD now has HNL, DUB, and MAN plus upgauges on several other routes from regional to mainline.

If that's a "shadow of its former self" I'd hate to see what you'd call it if they made real cuts
Pax levels at IAD have declined while those at DCA have increased. SFO, LAX and SEA have all been downgauged. Some IAH flights are now RJs. EZE is gone. HNL is a tourist route as is DUB. I doubt that MAN will last long (who goes there?). What are the upgauges on "several" routes you refer to?
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Old Jul 15, 13, 5:52 pm
  #36  
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The question has always been about money. Building a new set of terminals is likely to cost billions, which means all IAD-based fliers will be paying higher fares to pay it off for many, many years once it happens.
No, they won't. Fares are based on what the airline thinks they can get away with.

I agree with almost everyone that the facility is a dump. The big 'however' is, whether people book away from the facility itself or the location or airline. You'd have to be blindly loyal or a fool to book a flight out of IAD if you're based in the district itself and you can fly to where you have to go out of DCA. I'd rather connect in CLE/ORD/DEN to DCA than fly to IAD. Perhaps that would change with the metro line, at least you wouldn't have to deal with the awful traffic.

That is why IAD is left with some long haul and hub-hub NB's, the expanding express operation and the international traffic that can't use DCA.

At some point the new building will become a necessity rather than an option given the actual physical structure integrity, but I highly doubt the investment will pay off in any meaningful, non-utilitarian sense.
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Old Jul 15, 13, 6:01 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewwm View Post

The terminals were meant to be temporary when they were build in 1982.
Having grown up in NoVA in the 80s and 90s, I can tell you that they were pretty much a dump from the day they opened.
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Old Jul 15, 13, 7:24 pm
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An earlier poster discussed how the state and some local officials are talking about building another County Connector road between Prince William and Loudon. Story found online at: Washington Post: Connector Road to IAD Story

I honestly wish folks in NOVA would take their energy and focus on getting MWAA and United to find money to improve the C/D concourse. The story suggests that the road is being pushed in order to increase passenger flow out of IAD. If you improved the experience for domestic and international PAX that would help to draw people back to IAD.

In my opinion a road will do little to attract more fliers. A more modern and seamless travel experience at IAD will help a ton - people will want to fly to IAD and avoid EWR or other hubs. I'm not saying a new concourse is a complete panacea but I feel that will do more than a road.
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Old Jul 15, 13, 7:43 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by JetAway View Post
I think it's more likely UA will de-hub IAD or at least seriously cut capacity over the next few years.
what can it de-hub? its only RJ now?
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Old Jul 15, 13, 8:22 pm
  #40  
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Originally Posted by mh3265a View Post
An earlier poster discussed how the state and some local officials are talking about building another County Connector road between Prince William and Loudon. Story found online at: Washington Post: Connector Road to IAD Story

I honestly wish folks in NOVA would take their energy and focus on getting MWAA and United to find money to improve the C/D concourse. The story suggests that the road is being pushed in order to increase passenger flow out of IAD. If you improved the experience for domestic and international PAX that would help to draw people back to IAD.

In my opinion a road will do little to attract more fliers. A more modern and seamless travel experience at IAD will help a ton - people will want to fly to IAD and avoid EWR or other hubs. I'm not saying a new concourse is a complete panacea but I feel that will do more than a road.
I think that the purpose of the road is to get more business to send air cargo into and out of Dulles by providing a quick route to Interstate 81

Originally Posted by entropy View Post
No, they won't. Fares are based on what the airline thinks they can get away with.

I agree with almost everyone that the facility is a dump. The big 'however' is, whether people book away from the facility itself or the location or airline. You'd have to be blindly loyal or a fool to book a flight out of IAD if you're based in the district itself and you can fly to where you have to go out of DCA. I'd rather connect in CLE/ORD/DEN to DCA than fly to IAD. Perhaps that would change with the metro line, at least you wouldn't have to deal with the awful traffic.

That is why IAD is left with some long haul and hub-hub NB's, the expanding express operation and the international traffic that can't use DCA.

At some point the new building will become a necessity rather than an option given the actual physical structure integrity, but I highly doubt the investment will pay off in any meaningful, non-utilitarian sense.
Can someone tell AA that they need to also have a direct IAD->SFO flight? (Is Virgin America an option?) That would give United a kick in the pants.

Last edited by iluv2fly; Jul 15, 13 at 9:10 pm Reason: merge
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Old Jul 15, 13, 8:39 pm
  #41  
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Originally Posted by mh3265a View Post
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I honestly wish folks in NOVA would take their energy and focus on getting MWAA and United to find money to improve the C/D concourse. The story suggests that the road is being pushed in order to increase passenger flow out of IAD. If you improved the experience for domestic and international PAX that would help to draw people back to IAD.

In my opinion a road will do little to attract more fliers. A more modern and seamless travel experience at IAD will help a ton - people will want to fly to IAD and avoid EWR or other hubs. I'm not saying a new concourse is a complete panacea but I feel that will do more than a road.
Especially when the road will require those who approach the airport from the south to circle around the airport to the west, connect with the toll road to the north, and circle back to the main terminal.

This isn't a road to benefit IAD, it's a road designed to open up rural parts of Prince William and Loudoun Counties for the developers who are pushing for it behind the scenes.
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Old Jul 15, 13, 8:52 pm
  #42  
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Can someone tell AA that they need to also have a direct IAD->SFO flight? (Is Virgin America an option?) That would give United a kick in the pants.
they'd need more than 1, if you're trying to compete for business travel you would need 3 at a bare minimum. Its very hard to compete in a hub-hub situation, just ask VX how EWR-SFO is going...and I would argue they're more substantially differentiated than AA is.
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Old Jul 15, 13, 9:17 pm
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Originally Posted by looktowindward View Post
It has already reached Reston.
A major reason why I just moved out of LoCo and into Reston.
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Old Jul 15, 13, 9:25 pm
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by JetAway View Post
Pax levels at IAD have declined while those at DCA have increased. SFO, LAX and SEA have all been downgauged. Some IAH flights are now RJs. EZE is gone. HNL is a tourist route as is DUB. I doubt that MAN will last long (who goes there?). What are the upgauges on "several" routes you refer to?
If passenger levels at IAD have declined, I'd hate to see what they were before. Anytime after 4pm there is a madhouse in the concourse and in the clubs.
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Old Jul 15, 13, 9:52 pm
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by JetAway View Post
Pax levels at IAD have declined while those at DCA have increased. SFO, LAX and SEA have all been downgauged. Some IAH flights are now RJs. EZE is gone. HNL is a tourist route as is DUB. I doubt that MAN will last long (who goes there?). What are the upgauges on "several" routes you refer to?
While pax levels have definitely declined it is tricky to draw some kind of meaning from those numbers at face value. Independence Air provided a massive, unsustainable bump in passenger numbers, so if it is a decline compared to the FlyI years then it's a poor comparison.

I'd compare traffic changes at IAD after FlyI shut down to traffic changes across the nation as a whole and at other similar airports (CLT, ATL, PHL, BWI, EWR). For a while (probably around 2008) when UA was still UA and not COdbaUA IAD was the hub that saw the most growth/least shrinkage.

Right now the industry as a whole is not growing and it probably won't be for some time.

Originally Posted by mh3265a View Post
An earlier poster discussed how the state and some local officials are talking about building another County Connector road between Prince William and Loudon. Story found online at: Washington Post: Connector Road to IAD Story

I honestly wish folks in NOVA would take their energy and focus on getting MWAA and United to find money to improve the C/D concourse. The story suggests that the road is being pushed in order to increase passenger flow out of IAD. If you improved the experience for domestic and international PAX that would help to draw people back to IAD.

In my opinion a road will do little to attract more fliers. A more modern and seamless travel experience at IAD will help a ton - people will want to fly to IAD and avoid EWR or other hubs. I'm not saying a new concourse is a complete panacea but I feel that will do more than a road.
Originally Posted by halls120 View Post
Especially when the road will require those who approach the airport from the south to circle around the airport to the west, connect with the toll road to the north, and circle back to the main terminal.

This isn't a road to benefit IAD, it's a road designed to open up rural parts of Prince William and Loudoun Counties for the developers who are pushing for it behind the scenes.
The road as proposed is certainly a road for developers. Having said that, accessibility to IAD is terrible compared to other east coast airports. If IAD is ever to emerge as a true global aviation portal, which is has the potential to do, it needs to have better road access. ATL is straddled by I75 and I85. CLT is next to I85. BWI, PHL and EWR are right by I95. Their catchment extends quite far due to their road connections. IAD is 25 miles of horrible congestion from I95 to the south and even worse congestion to get to I95 North since the Maryland beltway is such a cluster. You can't even get to I66 west without a stop light. IAD needs an interstate connection that heads north to I270/I70 and south until it hits I95 in Prince William or Stafford.

I still think the hub will be ok longterm. Its an incredibly important market to the Star Alliance. If LH/OS/SK/SN/SA/NH/TK start pulling out, then its time to start worrying about the viability of the hub. They rely on connecting traffic as much as UA does (maybe not LH & NH, but the rest certainly need the hub feed). The real threat is EK and EY showing up (and QR sticking around) to suck traffic away from UA/LH/NH.

Last edited by whlinder; Jul 16, 13 at 6:12 am Reason: airline code mix up
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