Jun 18, 2013, 7:18 am
Last edit by: iluv2fly
Please read these sources before posting in this thread:If you have calculated the PQDs for a trip at less than 80% of the total cost, you are very likely doing something wrong. Have you made sure to include the International Surcharge (YQ)? Have you read all of the materials linked above, and the frequently made points listed below?
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.FMP (Frequently Made Points)
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):Related Threads
Moderator's Note:- First post from UA Insider (post 1)
- http://www.mileageplusupdates.com/faqs.html
- Additional answers from UA Insider (post 1387)
- more information about questions posed in this thread published to mileageplusupdates.com, per UA Insider
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.
- Will there be a calculator that shows PQD, and will that calculator be accurate?
- What exactly will count toward PQD?
United states:
Base fare and carrier-imposed surcharges
Flights flown by United, United Express, or Copa Airlines
Flights operated by a Star Alliance® or a MileagePlus partner airline and issued on a United ticket (ticket number starting with 016)
Economy Plus purchases
will count towards PQD.
Thus:
- The amount of co-pay when using miles to upgrade..
- The cost of PQMs/RDMs purchased when using the premier / award accelerator..
- The value of ETCs (or is it considered a discount from the fare?). (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include) -Note: the Mileage plus site indicates ETC's count towards PQD (12/16/13 imgonnafly)
- The face value e-certs and travel vouchers.. (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include)
- The cost of a paid upgrade..
- An extra seat purchase (such as for a customer of size or a musical instrument); it does not presently count toward PQM.
- Change fees.
- How will PQD be determined for UA metal segments without 016 stock ticket?
- What happens if I depart in December and return in January?
Just like PQM, PQD for the applicable part of fare for the segment is credited based on the departure date (year) of the segment flown. Segment fares are calculated using standard rules of the past. For the case cited there would be PQD credited in DEC 2013 (no value) and PQD applied to 2014 applicable to 2014 and 2015 status renewal. - How will UA evaluate the address issue for the PQD exemption?
- It is not clear how the timing of achieving the minimum PQD requirement will impact earning RPUs and GPUs. Examples:
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- Do only 1Ks/GSs earn additional RPUs by flying beyond the 100k mark?
- If a 1K crosses the 100,000 PQM mark in January 201x, the $10,000 PQD mark on December 31 201x, and ends up flying a total of 200,000 PQMs for the year 201x, how many RPUs / GPUs will be earned?
- Will Platinums earn 2 RPUs when crossing the 75k mark but none at incremental levels thereafter (e.g. a Plat who flies 100k EQMs, but does not meet the 1K spend, would *not* earn two more RPUs)?
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- How does IRROPs affect earning of PQDs?
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):
- You might not be hitting the PQD minimums as easily as you think you are, given exceptions, taxes, and the existence of cheap fares.
- It is possible for leisure travelers and even some business travelers to average well under 10cpm. This doesn't just affect "leisure 1Ks" and people on the edge of categories.
- Presidential Plus card members (exempted from Silver/Gold/Plat PQD requirements) are most likely exempted because the FlexPQM program would complicate matters.
- Manufacturing $25,000 spend might not actually be so hard. There's a whole forum on it.
- The exceptions don't really make sense where there is a revenue-sharing joint venture in place, such as with LH on TATL routes.
- Leaving UA for AA over objections to dollar-based status may be futile because all the majors will likely go to this model with the possible exception of the AS program which allows you to bank your DL and AA miles into one account (DL has already).
- UA is tracking spend on UA metal now.
- YQ, also known as the "international surcharge," is a carrier-imposed surcharge and is included in PQD.
2014 version of this thread can be found here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1536552-mileageplus-premier-qualifying-dollar-pqd-requirement-discussion-thread-2014-a-15.html
iluv2fly
Moderator, UA
MileagePlus Premier Qualifying Dollar (PQD) Requirement Discussion [ARCHIVE]
Jun 18, 2013, 5:16 pm
#766
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
The same flights book through LH's web site won't count?
Do the PQDs also include the mileage accelerator purchases?
Jun 18, 2013, 5:16 pm
#767
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago
Programs: AA EXP, UA former 1K (1.9MM and gone), Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 1,111
I'm not so sure a SkyPesos level devaluation will happen.
UA's lucrative relationship with Chase is based on the premise that the miles Chase doles out to it it's customers (Chase's customers, not UA's) have value. Devalue those miles to the point where they are useless and UA risks it's relationship with one of it's most valuable customers (Chase).
Sure miles will be devalued. That always happens - but I think that in some ways the Chase relationship is a mitigating factor, and we have some hope of not stooping to DL levels.
UA's lucrative relationship with Chase is based on the premise that the miles Chase doles out to it it's customers (Chase's customers, not UA's) have value. Devalue those miles to the point where they are useless and UA risks it's relationship with one of it's most valuable customers (Chase).
Sure miles will be devalued. That always happens - but I think that in some ways the Chase relationship is a mitigating factor, and we have some hope of not stooping to DL levels.
Jun 18, 2013, 5:19 pm
#768
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: LIS/ATL/other
Programs: UA 1K, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Sixt Plat, Marriott Gold, HH Silver
Posts: 1,983
If you're a nice brother, you'll let your twin brother have his UA mail sent to you in London.
Jun 18, 2013, 5:20 pm
#769
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Malibu, CA
Programs: UAL Silver!, Starwood Gold, Marriott Plat, AA Exec Platinum
Posts: 168
Hey United- one more voice to the roar- bad move with new hurdles for questionable benefits. Add to the elite benefits and more will jump. Take 'em away (like 50% vs 100% mileage bonus for Gold) and then add the hurdles, well, not much point, eh?
I guess 2014 will be the last year I work with any dedication to fly United. My loss is your loss UAL.
I guess 2014 will be the last year I work with any dedication to fly United. My loss is your loss UAL.
Jun 18, 2013, 5:21 pm
#770
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,693
I didn't say you have to fly UA, just that you need UA to issue the ticket with the partner flights on it. UA will issue tickets with other carrier's fares on them.
Jun 18, 2013, 5:21 pm
#771
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: UA 1K 1MM (finally!), IHG AMB-Spire, HH Diamond
Posts: 60,174
Yet PMUA gave me and many other ex 1K that vibe. Many specific examples where I felt that way. A helping hand from time to time, options and the like.
That is the best model. They understood they could address structural issues but minimize the in your face reductions. We knew they didn't do it out of generosity.
The new regime is trying to help their financials starting with raking the customer base. Hopefully the strategy fails badly.
Seriously, $2500 on WN gets you X and $2500 on UA gets you Y
X > Y
Jun 18, 2013, 5:21 pm
#772
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K, BAEC Gold
Posts: 98
I understand and agree with these changes, but they still mean that I'm done with United. The vast majority of my UA miles are actually flown and ticketed with Air New Zealand 1/2 LAX-LHR as I don't fly UA internationally. My minimal domestic UA flying will get me nowhere near Star Gold. It's a shame that the Star Alliance itself, seperate from any one airline, doesn't offer a mileage program. Oh well, now need to decide between NZ, LH, BA, AA...
Jun 18, 2013, 5:22 pm
#773
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: IAH / HOU
Programs: UA GS, DL-Plat, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Somethingist, Marriott Titanium Lifetime
Posts: 2,853
Aaron, thank you for providing ample notice of this change. It does not affect me in the least, but I appreciate that United is willing to give early notification for changes of this type.
Jun 18, 2013, 5:24 pm
#774
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,878
The PQD are fairly low, so a couple *F tickets would qualify one otherwise, with very few PQM/PQS. Luckily the PQD is low enough that most anyone who makes the PQM/PQS should also hit the PQD, unless they are flying exclusively rock bottom fares, based on first glance.
Originally Posted by NiceLanding
Of course pmCO flyers who spend a few hundred dollars a year for their Presidential Plus credit cards are exempt from the spend requirements, while pmUA people who have been spending the same money (or more) for their MP Club cards or directly for club membership are not. This management team is not at all embarrassed about the consistent favoritism they show for the own people. I personally have no great objection to this new spend requirement, but somehow they've managed to again remind me that my many years of loyalty to UA now mean less than nothing!
And yes, loyalty now means squat.
Jun 18, 2013, 5:25 pm
#775
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: En Route
Programs: Many
Posts: 6,798
It's not the spend requirement...hell, I think I've spent upwards of 30k on tickets already this year, but I want to spend my money on foreign partner airlines that offer products worth paying for, not on the crap UA offers. I guess, I will just move Chase Sapphire points to GAPE United for awards tickets and credit paid flights to Aegean to make *G. Unless I can use my French address to avoid this mess?
Jun 18, 2013, 5:25 pm
#776
Join Date: Oct 2008
Programs: UA 1K, 1MM
Posts: 504
I guess I question how many people there are out there who are hitting 25,000 miles without spending $2,500 (ignoring the 016 stock and other issues for now).
It's to some extent a question of how stupid UA are or are not. You'd imagine they've looked at the numbers, seen whom they might lose as a result of this, and rationalized that it's going to work. And I'm not commenting on how I would run the airline (top tier status reserved for Cricketers with spend ranging between $8K and $15K) - rather how this is fairly well in line with UA and the industry as a whole (in the US at least).
Trivially, if you have a current population of 100, and you are going to lose 10 people who spent $2K each, but gain more flying out of others that will offset the $20K loss, or as a result of losing those 10 people can remove one more widebody and replace it with a CRJ, then your business looks healthier.
And of course you're betting that AA will follow suit and everyone's loyalty program will be similar. Not exactly a stretch. So then in your example, you currently chose to spend your $4K for Premier Executive on UA rather than the competition for some particular reason(s). You're going to end up with much the same decision to make, except the value you get for your $4K and 54K miles, across the board, will be reduced.
It's to some extent a question of how stupid UA are or are not. You'd imagine they've looked at the numbers, seen whom they might lose as a result of this, and rationalized that it's going to work. And I'm not commenting on how I would run the airline (top tier status reserved for Cricketers with spend ranging between $8K and $15K) - rather how this is fairly well in line with UA and the industry as a whole (in the US at least).
Trivially, if you have a current population of 100, and you are going to lose 10 people who spent $2K each, but gain more flying out of others that will offset the $20K loss, or as a result of losing those 10 people can remove one more widebody and replace it with a CRJ, then your business looks healthier.
And of course you're betting that AA will follow suit and everyone's loyalty program will be similar. Not exactly a stretch. So then in your example, you currently chose to spend your $4K for Premier Executive on UA rather than the competition for some particular reason(s). You're going to end up with much the same decision to make, except the value you get for your $4K and 54K miles, across the board, will be reduced.
1) they get fewer 1Ks so no one notices about the TODs
2) The spend hits a limit where you think, at least Southwest makes sense. Low fare low earnings but high fare high earnings so I can fly less. Not high fare low earnings.
3) Basically it comes back to a question someone else pointed to as a rational argument that TODs make the airline more money. Do they? It seems in United's case the marginal revenue has been greatly offset by all the loyal fliers who left. So when they make such a clear cut stupid mistake I am inclined to question the spend limits on here and think they just picked some arbitrarily high value
Like you said though AA Is likely to follow suit so either wait a bit and see how it all shakes out or realize the loyalty game is ultimately stupid and get out of it all together
Jun 18, 2013, 5:27 pm
#777
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
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So lets take the following example (just run with it):
I am based in London and I make 5 flights a year in coach from LHR - SFO. Round trip that gives me 10,000 miles so X 5 trips 50,000 which would be gold right? Say as a rough example each flight costs £500 (as an average figure) so that is £2,500 which at todays exchange rate is $3,750.
Now lets say I have a twin (I dont but lets pretend I do) who lives in SFO. He likes to come to visit me in London and makes the trip 5 X a year. He will fly the same amount of miles, and lets say he pays the same amount for a ticket. He does not get gold but I do??
If I am correct, can someone please show me where the logic is to this?
I am based in London and I make 5 flights a year in coach from LHR - SFO. Round trip that gives me 10,000 miles so X 5 trips 50,000 which would be gold right? Say as a rough example each flight costs £500 (as an average figure) so that is £2,500 which at todays exchange rate is $3,750.
Now lets say I have a twin (I dont but lets pretend I do) who lives in SFO. He likes to come to visit me in London and makes the trip 5 X a year. He will fly the same amount of miles, and lets say he pays the same amount for a ticket. He does not get gold but I do??
If I am correct, can someone please show me where the logic is to this?
The reality is likely more mundane. The myriad different currencies and local laws likely make global implementation of this quite a bit too complex. As most MP members are US residents it's simply easier to make the new spend rules apply
nly to them. Most US residents are never going to even travel outside the country, never mind find an address to have mail sent to.
Jun 18, 2013, 5:28 pm
#778
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: Hilton Diamond, working on OZ Diamond, previously AA EXP, UA 1K, AS MVP75
Posts: 255
Maybe I'm blind but I haven't seen a single answer from Aaron.
Now that level of service does not deserve $10000 of my money.
AA/AC/TK/NH? what to do....
Now that level of service does not deserve $10000 of my money.
AA/AC/TK/NH? what to do....
Jun 18, 2013, 5:30 pm
#779
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PHL
Posts: 2,842
I bet they wait and see what type of fallout there is from DL/UA and if they actually see an increase of paxs/$ from deflectors.
I think this further degrades the concept of Alliances. DL seems to have started to stir the pot with it's partner earnings and spend thresholds and UA is following suit. As paxs we are supposed to see tremendous benefits from ATI agreements yet there are now several examples where your flts may not count towards elite status because of the fine print rules (LH ticket stock, ANA flts across the ocean)
Jun 18, 2013, 5:31 pm
#780
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: LIS/ATL/other
Programs: UA 1K, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Sixt Plat, Marriott Gold, HH Silver
Posts: 1,983