Jun 18, 2013, 7:18 am
Last edit by: iluv2fly
Please read these sources before posting in this thread:If you have calculated the PQDs for a trip at less than 80% of the total cost, you are very likely doing something wrong. Have you made sure to include the International Surcharge (YQ)? Have you read all of the materials linked above, and the frequently made points listed below?
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.FMP (Frequently Made Points)
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):Related Threads
Moderator's Note:- First post from UA Insider (post 1)
- http://www.mileageplusupdates.com/faqs.html
- Additional answers from UA Insider (post 1387)
- more information about questions posed in this thread published to mileageplusupdates.com, per UA Insider
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.
- Will there be a calculator that shows PQD, and will that calculator be accurate?
- What exactly will count toward PQD?
United states:
Base fare and carrier-imposed surcharges
Flights flown by United, United Express, or Copa Airlines
Flights operated by a Star Alliance® or a MileagePlus partner airline and issued on a United ticket (ticket number starting with 016)
Economy Plus purchases
will count towards PQD.
Thus:
- The amount of co-pay when using miles to upgrade..
- The cost of PQMs/RDMs purchased when using the premier / award accelerator..
- The value of ETCs (or is it considered a discount from the fare?). (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include) -Note: the Mileage plus site indicates ETC's count towards PQD (12/16/13 imgonnafly)
- The face value e-certs and travel vouchers.. (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include)
- The cost of a paid upgrade..
- An extra seat purchase (such as for a customer of size or a musical instrument); it does not presently count toward PQM.
- Change fees.
- How will PQD be determined for UA metal segments without 016 stock ticket?
- What happens if I depart in December and return in January?
Just like PQM, PQD for the applicable part of fare for the segment is credited based on the departure date (year) of the segment flown. Segment fares are calculated using standard rules of the past. For the case cited there would be PQD credited in DEC 2013 (no value) and PQD applied to 2014 applicable to 2014 and 2015 status renewal. - How will UA evaluate the address issue for the PQD exemption?
- It is not clear how the timing of achieving the minimum PQD requirement will impact earning RPUs and GPUs. Examples:
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- Do only 1Ks/GSs earn additional RPUs by flying beyond the 100k mark?
- If a 1K crosses the 100,000 PQM mark in January 201x, the $10,000 PQD mark on December 31 201x, and ends up flying a total of 200,000 PQMs for the year 201x, how many RPUs / GPUs will be earned?
- Will Platinums earn 2 RPUs when crossing the 75k mark but none at incremental levels thereafter (e.g. a Plat who flies 100k EQMs, but does not meet the 1K spend, would *not* earn two more RPUs)?
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- How does IRROPs affect earning of PQDs?
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):
- You might not be hitting the PQD minimums as easily as you think you are, given exceptions, taxes, and the existence of cheap fares.
- It is possible for leisure travelers and even some business travelers to average well under 10cpm. This doesn't just affect "leisure 1Ks" and people on the edge of categories.
- Presidential Plus card members (exempted from Silver/Gold/Plat PQD requirements) are most likely exempted because the FlexPQM program would complicate matters.
- Manufacturing $25,000 spend might not actually be so hard. There's a whole forum on it.
- The exceptions don't really make sense where there is a revenue-sharing joint venture in place, such as with LH on TATL routes.
- Leaving UA for AA over objections to dollar-based status may be futile because all the majors will likely go to this model with the possible exception of the AS program which allows you to bank your DL and AA miles into one account (DL has already).
- UA is tracking spend on UA metal now.
- YQ, also known as the "international surcharge," is a carrier-imposed surcharge and is included in PQD.
2014 version of this thread can be found here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1536552-mileageplus-premier-qualifying-dollar-pqd-requirement-discussion-thread-2014-a-15.html
iluv2fly
Moderator, UA
MileagePlus Premier Qualifying Dollar (PQD) Requirement Discussion [ARCHIVE]
Jun 24, 2013, 9:39 pm
#2221
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SFO
Programs: UA--no longer 2P as of 3/2012 and don't even care. Never thought I'd say that.
Posts: 781
Jun 24, 2013, 9:46 pm
#2222
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Colorado
Programs: Lifetime UA 1K, Lifetime Hilton Diamond, Lifetime Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 1,261
Govt employees own the miles they accrue under FFPs. That being said, except for (usually) politically-appointed senior executives, gov't employees NEVER fly in anything but Y (although they can upgrade using their own miles or paying for the upgrade out of pocket -- which cannot be claimed as a travel expense).
Jun 24, 2013, 9:51 pm
#2223
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SJC/SFO & ORD
Programs: LT Gold/BA Executive Club/AS MP/Marriott
Posts: 1,646
Jun 24, 2013, 10:01 pm
#2224
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DAY
Programs: UA 1K 1MM; Marriott LT Titanium; Amex MR; Chase UR; Hertz PC; Global Entry
Posts: 10,159
<snip>
The policy is only 1 week old, and won't even be a factor for 6 more months - there will likely be some adjustments once things get going as they track updated travel patterns. They think your husband and others like him won't leave (the network!! 787!!), partially due to blind arrogance and partially due to hope, but when they do, the policy will be changed, and fast.
<snip>
The policy is only 1 week old, and won't even be a factor for 6 more months - there will likely be some adjustments once things get going as they track updated travel patterns. They think your husband and others like him won't leave (the network!! 787!!), partially due to blind arrogance and partially due to hope, but when they do, the policy will be changed, and fast.
<snip>
Have to disagree with you on this one. This is a factor now.
I am pretty sure I will easily qualify with $10K in airfare, but this is just a guess. I have not tracked spend and really don't have the time to go back and look now.
But, I will not be making ANY UA purchases for flights in 2014 without being comfortable in knowing exactly how this program works. UA has lost a TON of credibility and I am not going to gamble with status...it is too important for my business trips and personal life.
Irrops, inaccurate tracking...UA even hedges on the types of flights that will qualify. "Certain specialty tickets, including but not limited to unpublished, consolidator, group/tour, and opaque fares do not earn PQD"
I buy a mix of tickets. Some are no notice, high fare-class trips. Some special trips I book way in advance. Not purchasing anything now if the travel date is 2014.
Just like the stupid, now-rescinded GPU expiration policy, this has the unexpected consequence of revenue postponement. Not smart with UAs current financial performance.
In my case, and I am probably not alone, it is not in UA's interest to have lingering questions and confusion about how this is going to work.
Jun 24, 2013, 10:04 pm
#2225
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,199
More than any other industry, airlines have used Ch11 bankruptcy as a frequent house cleaning service to rid themselves of debt, vendor contracts, obligations and employee contracts under the threat of Ch7 and liquidation, and some did it on a regular basis.
Previously, our government leaders felt robust and plentiful competition were the key to a healthy airline industry and affordable fares for everyone - and airlines were rewarded with contracts to provide service to remote cities and towns at a near guaranteed profit or at least no loss.
In Obama's world, airline consolidation, loss of critical service to remote communities, higher fares, worsening service and reduced competition and choice are appropriate for the industry - but without a CAB safety net to protect the flying public.
It would take over a decade or more to redo the airline industry to a healthy, consistent status but it would require a total overhaul of our travel experience back to the 70s and 80s with less frequent service on widebody aircraft and more point to point routes flown by different airlines (so you chose the airline that worked for your trip needs instead of the airline you were loyal to), with fares stabilized by a government agency much like a utility.
Previously, our government leaders felt robust and plentiful competition were the key to a healthy airline industry and affordable fares for everyone - and airlines were rewarded with contracts to provide service to remote cities and towns at a near guaranteed profit or at least no loss.
In Obama's world, airline consolidation, loss of critical service to remote communities, higher fares, worsening service and reduced competition and choice are appropriate for the industry - but without a CAB safety net to protect the flying public.
It would take over a decade or more to redo the airline industry to a healthy, consistent status but it would require a total overhaul of our travel experience back to the 70s and 80s with less frequent service on widebody aircraft and more point to point routes flown by different airlines (so you chose the airline that worked for your trip needs instead of the airline you were loyal to), with fares stabilized by a government agency much like a utility.
Jun 24, 2013, 10:22 pm
#2226
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Homosassa, FL & Ringwood, NJ -UA-G(Lifetime); SPG-Plat (Lifetime)
Posts: 6,120
Oldie but goodie...
I found this:
This excerpt is from "UAL's Our Times, V5 #12 Dec 18, 1999 p10." It's dated but relevant. Does anyone have a more recent statistic?
"United's Premier customers represent 8 percent of the active members, but generate 35 percent of the total transportation revenue. Premier members spend more than 6 times general members, while Premier Executives and 1K members spend more than 12 times and 30 times respectively. If just 1 percent of the Premier-level members resigned from Mileage Plus, the company would lose $58 million in transportation revenue."
While this is OLD, it gives some idea of the importance of Premier members.
While the current number of Premier members is unavailable, some really, really rough estimates are possible:
In 2005, Randy posted that there were 42 M MileagePlus members, 11.7 million (28%) were active. OF THE ACTVE:
535K Silver(4.5% of active)
239K Gold (2% of active)
46.1K 1K(0.4% of active)
18K GS (0.15% of active)
Note how the total % (~7) is pretty close to the 8% in the 1999 article
In a Feb 2011 Financial Interview, Tom O'Toole of UA stated that the combined MP/OP members were expected to number 94M.
Rounding and bringing it to 2013, lets call it 100M members in MP today.
If we take the same 28% as active, we have 28 M active MP members today, meaning, if we use the percentages that existed in 2005:
Silver 1.26M
Gold 560K
Plat ?
1K 112K
GS 42K
Thus, in 1999: "if just 1% of premier members resigned, the company would lose 58 million in reveue...."
Imagine the revenue loss if 2-3% of current MP members are no longer loyal to UA. It seems to be a really big gamble by UA.
This excerpt is from "UAL's Our Times, V5 #12 Dec 18, 1999 p10." It's dated but relevant. Does anyone have a more recent statistic?
"United's Premier customers represent 8 percent of the active members, but generate 35 percent of the total transportation revenue. Premier members spend more than 6 times general members, while Premier Executives and 1K members spend more than 12 times and 30 times respectively. If just 1 percent of the Premier-level members resigned from Mileage Plus, the company would lose $58 million in transportation revenue."
While this is OLD, it gives some idea of the importance of Premier members.
While the current number of Premier members is unavailable, some really, really rough estimates are possible:
In 2005, Randy posted that there were 42 M MileagePlus members, 11.7 million (28%) were active. OF THE ACTVE:
535K Silver(4.5% of active)
239K Gold (2% of active)
46.1K 1K(0.4% of active)
18K GS (0.15% of active)
Note how the total % (~7) is pretty close to the 8% in the 1999 article
In a Feb 2011 Financial Interview, Tom O'Toole of UA stated that the combined MP/OP members were expected to number 94M.
Rounding and bringing it to 2013, lets call it 100M members in MP today.
If we take the same 28% as active, we have 28 M active MP members today, meaning, if we use the percentages that existed in 2005:
Silver 1.26M
Gold 560K
Plat ?
1K 112K
GS 42K
Thus, in 1999: "if just 1% of premier members resigned, the company would lose 58 million in reveue...."
Imagine the revenue loss if 2-3% of current MP members are no longer loyal to UA. It seems to be a really big gamble by UA.
Jun 24, 2013, 10:24 pm
#2227
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Gold-MM, AA Gold-MM, F9-Silver, Hyatt Something, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,392
Jun 24, 2013, 10:38 pm
#2228
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA MileagePlus (Premier Gold); Hilton HHonors (Gold); Chase Ultimate Rewards; Amex Plat
Posts: 6,669
I found this:
This excerpt is from "UAL's Our Times, V5 #12 Dec 18, 1999 p10." It's dated but relevant. Does anyone have a more recent statistic?
"United's Premier customers represent 8 percent of the active members, but generate 35 percent of the total transportation revenue. Premier members spend more than 6 times general members, while Premier Executives and 1K members spend more than 12 times and 30 times respectively. If just 1 percent of the Premier-level members resigned from Mileage Plus, the company would lose $58 million in transportation revenue."
While this is OLD, it gives some idea of the importance of Premier members.
While the current number of Premier members is unavailable, some really, really rough estimates are possible:
In 2005, Randy posted that there were 42 M MileagePlus members, 11.7 million (28%) were active. OF THE ACTVE:
535K Silver(4.5% of active)
239K Gold (2% of active)
46.1K 1K(0.4% of active)
18K GS (0.15% of active)
Note how the total % (~7) is pretty close to the 8% in the 1999 article
In a Feb 2011 Financial Interview, Tom O'Toole of UA stated that the combined MP/OP members were expected to number 94M.
Rounding and bringing it to 2013, lets call it 100M members in MP today.
If we take the same 28% as active, we have 28 M active MP members today, meaning, if we use the percentages that existed in 2005:
Silver 1.26M
Gold 560K
Plat ?
1K 112K
GS 42K
Thus, in 1999: "if just 1% of premier members resigned, the company would lose 58 million in reveue...."
Imagine the revenue loss if 2-3% of current MP members are no longer loyal to UA. It seems to be a really big gamble by UA.
This excerpt is from "UAL's Our Times, V5 #12 Dec 18, 1999 p10." It's dated but relevant. Does anyone have a more recent statistic?
"United's Premier customers represent 8 percent of the active members, but generate 35 percent of the total transportation revenue. Premier members spend more than 6 times general members, while Premier Executives and 1K members spend more than 12 times and 30 times respectively. If just 1 percent of the Premier-level members resigned from Mileage Plus, the company would lose $58 million in transportation revenue."
While this is OLD, it gives some idea of the importance of Premier members.
While the current number of Premier members is unavailable, some really, really rough estimates are possible:
In 2005, Randy posted that there were 42 M MileagePlus members, 11.7 million (28%) were active. OF THE ACTVE:
535K Silver(4.5% of active)
239K Gold (2% of active)
46.1K 1K(0.4% of active)
18K GS (0.15% of active)
Note how the total % (~7) is pretty close to the 8% in the 1999 article
In a Feb 2011 Financial Interview, Tom O'Toole of UA stated that the combined MP/OP members were expected to number 94M.
Rounding and bringing it to 2013, lets call it 100M members in MP today.
If we take the same 28% as active, we have 28 M active MP members today, meaning, if we use the percentages that existed in 2005:
Silver 1.26M
Gold 560K
Plat ?
1K 112K
GS 42K
Thus, in 1999: "if just 1% of premier members resigned, the company would lose 58 million in reveue...."
Imagine the revenue loss if 2-3% of current MP members are no longer loyal to UA. It seems to be a really big gamble by UA.
In 2011, I made Silver for the first time. When UA devalued Silver such that Silver no longer got more than one free bag, and didn't even get E+ at booking, and I missed an upgrade coming back from Hawaii, I went for Gold (and got it for the first time last year - no mileage runs necessary).
But now, I am 0 for 7 on CPUs this year, and while it looks like I might at least get the SFO-Hawaii and back CPUs this year, I'm beginning to wonder if it's even worth playing this stupid game. This year, my company hasn't sent me overseas yet (this could change quickly, and I'd be easily put over the UA spend requirements in 1 trip), so I've been booking mileage runs to make up the difference. But after I requalify for Gold in 2014, I'm seriously considering moving my mileage credit to a foreign *A carrier.
Who cares about CPU since I'm 0 for 7 this year? Why not credit miles to a foreign carrier that has status that lasts longer than a calendar year and lower mileage requirements than UA's? E+? It's nice, but honestly, I'm not that tall. It doesn't matter all that much (at least to me). What I really care about is not getting gouged for bags, and lounge access. In other words, *G, which I don't have to even use UA to get. And, foreign carriers don't pull the absolutely bush league move of denying access to the United Club lounges unless the travel is international! If I miss a Hawaii upgrade again, due to TOD upgrades being sold out from under the elites (because honestly, almost NOBODY buys F seats to Hawaii and there aren't many elites on those routes), then it'll make my decision even easier.
Last edited by STS-134; Jun 24, 2013 at 10:48 pm
Jun 24, 2013, 10:43 pm
#2229
Suspended
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Just outside Big D, or many other places in big metal tubes
Programs: WN Rpd.Rwrds, AA, was longtime CO very top Elite tier, Overentitled UA Lifetime 1K (since 2012)
Posts: 1,334
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/4432857-post21.html A bit outdated, but I doubt it's changed too much.
Maybe someone reading this post will have more recent figures.
Last edited by mkr; Jun 24, 2013 at 10:44 pm Reason: spellin'
Jun 24, 2013, 10:53 pm
#2230
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: Free checked in bag on UA & DL. Free icecream at Marriott checkin.
Posts: 2,862
Your insights on targeting for 2014 status?
I have almost made 50k for the year. Is it worth flying United anymore? Should I target for 1K? I fly a lot on * Alliance (non United) tickets.
I think my travel plans for 2014 will be mostly on Southwest or the lowest carrier in anticipation of these new targets for 2015. Am I missing something in not trying to achieve 1K for 2014?
I think my travel plans for 2014 will be mostly on Southwest or the lowest carrier in anticipation of these new targets for 2015. Am I missing something in not trying to achieve 1K for 2014?
Jun 24, 2013, 10:59 pm
#2231
Suspended
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Just outside Big D, or many other places in big metal tubes
Programs: WN Rpd.Rwrds, AA, was longtime CO very top Elite tier, Overentitled UA Lifetime 1K (since 2012)
Posts: 1,334
I have almost made 50k for the year. Is it worth flying United anymore? Should I target for 1K? I fly a lot on * Alliance (non United) tickets.
I think my travel plans for 2014 will be mostly on Southwest or the lowest carrier in anticipation of these new targets for 2015. Am I missing something in not trying to achieve 1K for 2014?
I think my travel plans for 2014 will be mostly on Southwest or the lowest carrier in anticipation of these new targets for 2015. Am I missing something in not trying to achieve 1K for 2014?
Jun 24, 2013, 11:11 pm
#2232
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SJC/SFO & ORD
Programs: LT Gold/BA Executive Club/AS MP/Marriott
Posts: 1,646
More than any other industry, airlines have used Ch11 bankruptcy as a frequent house cleaning service to rid themselves of debt, vendor contracts, obligations and employee contracts under the threat of Ch7 and liquidation, and some did it on a regular basis.
Previously, our government leaders felt robust and plentiful competition were the key to a healthy airline industry and affordable fares for everyone - and airlines were rewarded with contracts to provide service to remote cities and towns at a near guaranteed profit or at least no loss.
In Obama's world, airline consolidation, loss of critical service to remote communities, higher fares, worsening service and reduced competition and choice are appropriate for the industry - but without a CAB safety net to protect the flying public.
It would take over a decade or more to redo the airline industry to a healthy, consistent status but it would require a total overhaul of our travel experience back to the 70s and 80s with less frequent service on widebody aircraft and more point to point routes flown by different airlines (so you chose the airline that worked for your trip needs instead of the airline you were loyal to), with fares stabilized by a government agency much like a utility.
Previously, our government leaders felt robust and plentiful competition were the key to a healthy airline industry and affordable fares for everyone - and airlines were rewarded with contracts to provide service to remote cities and towns at a near guaranteed profit or at least no loss.
In Obama's world, airline consolidation, loss of critical service to remote communities, higher fares, worsening service and reduced competition and choice are appropriate for the industry - but without a CAB safety net to protect the flying public.
It would take over a decade or more to redo the airline industry to a healthy, consistent status but it would require a total overhaul of our travel experience back to the 70s and 80s with less frequent service on widebody aircraft and more point to point routes flown by different airlines (so you chose the airline that worked for your trip needs instead of the airline you were loyal to), with fares stabilized by a government agency much like a utility.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension...ty_Corporation
2)You are basically saying that air markets should be re-regulated, which IMHO would be a bad thing. If a company can't compete and make profits, it should either restructure or vanish via whatever reasons (bought out, liquidated, merge, etc).
3)What makes one think that the government knows how best to judge a business/particular market?
Jun 24, 2013, 11:19 pm
#2233
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MEL
Programs: VAG
Posts: 1,865
I have almost made 50k for the year. Is it worth flying United anymore? Should I target for 1K? I fly a lot on * Alliance (non United) tickets.
I think my travel plans for 2014 will be mostly on Southwest or the lowest carrier in anticipation of these new targets for 2015. Am I missing something in not trying to achieve 1K for 2014?
I think my travel plans for 2014 will be mostly on Southwest or the lowest carrier in anticipation of these new targets for 2015. Am I missing something in not trying to achieve 1K for 2014?
For me to make the spend requirements I would have had to reallocate my international travel from *A partners to UA itself. And that's terrible, because I hate flying UA internationally where an alternative exists. You'd have to be crazy to do it! Those awful, awful ancient 744s. I'd rather swim.
Maybe UA is happier without people like me. I know I'm happier without UA. ^
Jun 24, 2013, 11:22 pm
#2234
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
I've only flown Southwest a couple of times.
I just don't get the appeal. It's only for short flights right? They don't even seem to have too many coast to coast options, never mind international.
And if you have no status, you end up with the middle seat in the back. Not that the front seats are that much better.
You get points if you sign up for the credit cards that they push on you at the gate?
I just don't get the appeal. It's only for short flights right? They don't even seem to have too many coast to coast options, never mind international.
And if you have no status, you end up with the middle seat in the back. Not that the front seats are that much better.
You get points if you sign up for the credit cards that they push on you at the gate?
Jun 24, 2013, 11:38 pm
#2235
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,450
Actually, status has virtually nothing to do with it. You get an "A" boarding pass by (1) paying for business select, or (2) paying for early bird check-in, or (3) being obsessive about checking in at T-24.