relangford

Last year: UA 139,000 miles; AA 750 miles; DL 14,500 miles.

So far this year: UA 15,000 miles; AA 54,000 miles; DL 1,100 miles.

That's my record. But, I'm sure UA doesn't notice such small customers.

FlyWorld

Unfortunately, it doesn't hit their radar. All they care about is selling a seat in F to the Kettle for $29 and grabbing another $100 or so in luggage fees. That's as far as they can see.

mike1968

In the CO system this is a true statement. Unfortunately in pmUA before the UDU, is was not true. Plenty of people paid for UA domestic F and for those who did not, all premiers could use earned or purchase e500s. If you didn't have accumulated instruments you could spend $400 for a rt west coast trip from ORD for two booklets. If the cabin was empty they at least monetized the meal/drinks and created a brand loyalty among the premiers.

Now they get nothing or at best some TODs from folks who aren't that brand loyal in the first place. It's not a surprise to see the dismantling of UA F for something even lower than CO front cabin. It's also not surprising to see people with the $s going elsewhere as a result.

spin88

This is 100% on target. Neither EWR or IAH are major premium markets. As a result CO got very little paid F. F was what you got upgraded to (domestic) and they have few F seats internationally. I recall Gordon saying CO did not need E+ as their elites got to sit up front.

UA on the other hand had a lot of paid F.

I have had the some conversation with two UA suits, both PMCO, both said "gee, we were surprised at how much full paid F traffic UA had, we did not get any of that." Unfortunately, the CO folks had no idea how to treat these folks or preserve that traffic, and now they get to cater to more and more TOD folks and upgraders.

dsquared37

Smaller pieces pack more efficiently thereby demanding that, to really save money, the ramekins need to be shallower.

dgcpaphd

The WSJ article was humorous because of the article's lack of full disclosure.

I noticed that the seventh paragraph omitted one critical sentence that will alert readers to the true Smisek and the true UA.

The seventh paragraph reads:

"United in the first quarter of 2013 posted its best on-time performance in a decade, with 81% of domestic flights arriving on time. In the 12 months through April, United was second worst among its major rivals, with a 77% on-time rate, according to U.S. Department of Transportation data."

The missing sentence is:

United posted a loss for the first quarter of 2013 in the amount of three hundred sixty-two million dollars.

What is with Smisek? He talks only about the rosy things of UA but omits critical data like losing more than three hundred sixty million dollars between January and March of this year. April and May were also dismal months.

The man has no credibility.

He reminds me of an old movie that occasionally plays on AMC called "The Music Man" The main star (Robert Preston) had a gift for always changing the subject when focus was aimed at him or his lack of accomplishments.
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BlueEyedDevil

But what you forget to mention is that all those nickle and dime cost savings measures made american airlines an extremely profitable airline who never went into bankruptcy again, and certainly didn't get bought out by us airways. Oh wait, no...

bearkatt

as a former co flyer, I don't understand your comment. are you saying that before, ua folks paid for 1st. now they are leaving because they didn't pay for 1st and that first class seat has now been sold out from underneath them to some kettle for a tod?

fjfv19

Wait wait wait. So are you implying both EWR, which handles significant traffic from NYC, and IAH, which handles incomprehensible amounts of oil money, aren't considered "premium" markets? I would understand if you were talking about CLE (no offense), however this just doesn't seem correct to me.

FlyingNut724

Prior to the merger people paid for 1st either directly or e500 certificates (either earned or purchased). After the merger, very few would want to pay for 1st that because the service has significantly deteriorated.

EDIT:: I should add that the service, not only includes the service up front, but also the boarding process, being on-time and being treated right during IRROPS. Who would want to pay for 1st class ticket have to stand in the monster group 1 line?

FlyWorld

Yeah. Here's how it worked for me, and might have worked for others.

With UA, I'd pay for F several times per year. I got extra miles EQM, that helped me qualify for 1K. As a 1K, I was treated with respect and dignity and appreciation. Most importantly, I almost always got upgraded.

With CO, I'd pay for F several times per year. I got extra miles EQM, that helped me qualify for 1K. As a 1K, I was treated with hostility and contempt and derided as "over-entitled" and never got upgraded. What's the point? Walk away.

goingbananas

I actually loved those A fares (Q-up types), on the old UA and flew them quite a bit domestically. Even in IRROPS, I never had an issue getting re-booked into F on the alternate flight, (unlike the stories I hear with people), under the new UA. I never worried that paying the A fare, I might or might not end up in F.

INTL was a different story where I bought the C or D fare then used the SWU certificate to fly F. And that was not a "heavily discounted" corporate fare either.

DC Mike

After flying into and out of EWR in the past 10 days for the first time, I'd have to agree with the falsehood of "on the mend". What stood out most was the anti-customer attitude. From gate agents mocking a woman who had the door closed on her, to FAs who were downright grouchy, to some really horrible gate area management (if you have two flights to the same destination leaving frm adjacent gates, please use flight numbers when discussing them over the loudspeaker, and don't blame passengers who are confused by your lack thereof), etc. Inevitable failture from the retreat to greatness is coming.

FlyWorld

Excellent points.

The B.S. that I experience and read about with CO is astounding! You pay for F, then they tell you that you never paid for F, because it was an xUP fare, and they consider that to be a Y fare, so you don't get F miles, you might not get your F seat, and you don't get F service, especially in IRROPS.

With UA, it was never that way. If I bought a seat in F, then everything about that experience was F, from start to finish. They never sold me F, took my money for F, then did a bait and switch to claim it was really Y. Never.

I guess that's because UA ran UA as an airline, not a business. Running it as a business means using all the cheapest disgusting snake oil salesman tricks to scrape every last cent out of every interaction. So glad these CO folks are teaching us what it means to run a business. One with losses of hundreds of millions of dollars each quarter. I've got two business degrees, with a lot of study in finance and economics, plus a ton of real world business experience. Never once in any of my training or experience have I encountered the notion that "running a business" means throwing away your best customers, adopting an anti-customer attitude, and posting losses each quarter. What school did these **** go to anyway?

On the mend? Not a chance.

fly18725

It is not correct. Anyone trying to upgrade on an EWR transcon would confirm the demand for paid domestic F.