United Wrecks Young Man's Guitar After Forcing Him To Check It
Jun 9, 2013, 11:52 am
#46
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Which takes me to this forum. Now there are lots of folks who reflexively defend CO (and UAfkaCO) but I'm kind of surprised the response here. Reading the CO defenders posts:
(1) its his fault, should have know the 45" rules
(2) should have bought a special travel case
(3) it was already broken, is just trying to scam UA by buying a ticket, then waiting for them to make him gate check it, to claim its broken.
Actually, its none of these. Sounds like a guy wanting to get from point a to point b, he did what millions of guitar owners do, brought it through security, onto the plane, UA made him gate check it, UA broke it.
UA will pay compensation, UA should pay compensation, and no the guy is not - despite certain FTers accusations - some vile criminal responsible for what a great world beating airline UA has become...
(1) its his fault, should have know the 45" rules
(2) should have bought a special travel case
(3) it was already broken, is just trying to scam UA by buying a ticket, then waiting for them to make him gate check it, to claim its broken.
Actually, its none of these. Sounds like a guy wanting to get from point a to point b, he did what millions of guitar owners do, brought it through security, onto the plane, UA made him gate check it, UA broke it.
UA will pay compensation, UA should pay compensation, and no the guy is not - despite certain FTers accusations - some vile criminal responsible for what a great world beating airline UA has become...
Last edited by 1KPath; Jun 9, 2013 at 12:00 pm
Jun 9, 2013, 1:33 pm
#47
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SFO South Bay
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 3,052
My point in this thread is that people should take some responsibility for themselves. The rules clearly say you cannot plan to bring a large item like this on board. You might get away with it, but you must plan for the situation where you do not. And that means having a case for the guitar that will stand up to normal airline handling.
If that guitar case was appropriate for airline checked baggage, and it was nevertheless abused and damaged, then UA is 100% at fault. I see no blame on the passenger.
If the case was inappropriate for airline baggage (which it appears to my eye in the pictures, based on similar cases I have owned and seen), then the passenger shares SOME blame.
Jun 9, 2013, 2:16 pm
#48
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Plat, HH Diamond, MR Gold, Hertz Prez Circle
Posts: 572
...but I am.
Kid does what millions of passengers has done before him, he brings his guitar on a flight. I've seen this on about 1/4 of my flights, some guy has a guitar. They used to go into the Closet, it was a typical routine. But now UA has taken the closets out, or is taking them out (would be curious if this was a bird without a closet, or the FAs would not let him use it).
Regardless, guitars go in the overhead bins, I've seen lots of them there.
Now I note that he was let though security with the guitar, and that is because they are items that yes don't meet the silly 45" rule (note that SW, AS and a few others have less stringent carry on rules (they allow 10"x17"x24" bags) but everyone knows you can carry on. Sort of like you can carry on a tennis racket, or a wedding dress. On some airlines the FA/GAs rather than saying "no, gate check" still say "hey congratulations" or "so what kind of music do you play" etc.
Now UA had a little issue with a guitar, it was a PR fiasco, added to UAs reputation for poor service. You would think that UA would want to prevent a repeat...
Which takes me to this forum. Now there are lots of folks who reflexively defend CO (and UAfkaCO) but I'm kind of surprised the response here. Reading the CO defenders posts:
(1) its his fault, should have know the 45" rules
(2) should have bought a special travel case
(3) it was already broken, is just trying to scam UA by buying a ticket, then waiting for them to make him gate check it, to claim its broken.
Actually, its none of these. Sounds like a guy wanting to get from point a to point b, he did what millions of guitar owners do, brought it through security, onto the plane, UA made him gate check it, UA broke it.
UA will pay compensation, UA should pay compensation, and no the guy is not - despite certain FTers accusations - some vile criminal responsible for what a great world beating airline UA has become...
Kid does what millions of passengers has done before him, he brings his guitar on a flight. I've seen this on about 1/4 of my flights, some guy has a guitar. They used to go into the Closet, it was a typical routine. But now UA has taken the closets out, or is taking them out (would be curious if this was a bird without a closet, or the FAs would not let him use it).
Regardless, guitars go in the overhead bins, I've seen lots of them there.
Now I note that he was let though security with the guitar, and that is because they are items that yes don't meet the silly 45" rule (note that SW, AS and a few others have less stringent carry on rules (they allow 10"x17"x24" bags) but everyone knows you can carry on. Sort of like you can carry on a tennis racket, or a wedding dress. On some airlines the FA/GAs rather than saying "no, gate check" still say "hey congratulations" or "so what kind of music do you play" etc.
Now UA had a little issue with a guitar, it was a PR fiasco, added to UAs reputation for poor service. You would think that UA would want to prevent a repeat...
Which takes me to this forum. Now there are lots of folks who reflexively defend CO (and UAfkaCO) but I'm kind of surprised the response here. Reading the CO defenders posts:
(1) its his fault, should have know the 45" rules
(2) should have bought a special travel case
(3) it was already broken, is just trying to scam UA by buying a ticket, then waiting for them to make him gate check it, to claim its broken.
Actually, its none of these. Sounds like a guy wanting to get from point a to point b, he did what millions of guitar owners do, brought it through security, onto the plane, UA made him gate check it, UA broke it.
UA will pay compensation, UA should pay compensation, and no the guy is not - despite certain FTers accusations - some vile criminal responsible for what a great world beating airline UA has become...
Regarding the overhead bin rules, sorry, them's the rules and I don't care how spottily they are enforced. If you don't follow them just because you are relying on lazy GA/FA's, you are a rude and inconsiderate traveler. End of story.
And no one is doing the CO vs UA thing besides you. In fact, we were just joking about how someone was going to come in here and start that mess...
Jun 9, 2013, 2:48 pm
#49
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SFO South Bay
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Posts: 3,052
Jun 9, 2013, 10:03 pm
#50
Join Date: Feb 2008
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My point in this thread is that people should take some responsibility for themselves. The rules clearly say you cannot plan to bring a large item like this on board. You might get away with it, but you must plan for the situation where you do not. And that means having a case for the guitar that will stand up to normal airline handling.
Sorry if there is some confusion but I'm more or less just laughing at this guy's shock over a common incident and his own failure to plan. My partner has a guitar that he's loved longer than me. He checks it and he bought a case for it with those rules in mind.
Regarding the overhead bin rules, sorry, them's the rules and I don't care how spottily they are enforced. If you don't follow them just because you are relying on lazy GA/FA's, you are a rude and inconsiderate traveler. End of story.
Regarding the overhead bin rules, sorry, them's the rules and I don't care how spottily they are enforced. If you don't follow them just because you are relying on lazy GA/FA's, you are a rude and inconsiderate traveler. End of story.
United has 88,000 employees, and as we all know, even many of them don't know the rules. United flew 145,000,000 passengers in 2012. How many of them read the entire set of rules? How many of them knew them by heart? I assume you guys have memorized the contents of your cars' owners manual too?
Fact is the "rules" we all know is what our experience is. Had you asked me, I would have told you I assumed that Guitars were allowed as carry on bags. I bet if you polled 100 non flying "experts" 98 of them would say they were permitted as carry on baggage.
expecting every one of UAs 145,000,000 passengers to protect themselves by having read UAs entire rules is just silly.
hobgoblin of little minds
Jun 9, 2013, 10:40 pm
#51
Join Date: Aug 2004
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?I just don't see how this is any different from any other cracked bag case? There is no space, oversized item must be checked. This is neither unusual nor a "PR disaster". Luggage breaks all the time, especially if you fly UACO. Guitar owner appears overly whiny that their noise generator got dented. That's all.
Jun 10, 2013, 5:23 am
#52
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Anyhow, if a person has no experience flying, they DO NOT know that guitars go in the overhead is your experience. You can't have it both ways. Either they are experienced or they are not.
Regarding your betting notion; I would suggest that people do know the rules otherwise they'd be hauling everything they packed to the gate and never bothering to pay for a checked bag. Further, carryon amount and sizing isn't exactly fine print. They scream it at you every step of the way.
Jun 10, 2013, 9:12 am
#53
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SFO South Bay
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Posts: 3,052
Nice reference. But again, overblown, yes? Just don't take the next step in your analogies or we will approach the Godwin Rule. Seriously though, I empathize with anyone who experiences loss, and as a bass guitar player myself, it hits close to home. But I will say it again:
Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part
Last edited by blueman2; Jun 10, 2013 at 9:17 am
Jun 10, 2013, 11:22 am
#54
Join Date: Jan 2005
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This person did not plan properly. He suffered as a result. Does that excuse UA? No. They are responsible to damage caused to properly packaged items they carry. But the person who failed to realize he might need to check a fragile item, and therefore needed to have a proper storage case for it, also shares fault.
Properly packaged is an important component in this discussion.
I have been on many flights where guitars were put in the overhead,taking up the entire bin,except a bit of space for jackets and other soft sided items.
This is just plain rude and often causes disputes.
The airlines need to make it clear that guitars and like items will be accepted as carryon,ONLY if there is available space that does not infringe on the ability of other pax to store their own size conforming bags.
Pack it as if it were going to be checked-and consider yourself lucky if it does not need to be.
Jun 10, 2013, 8:07 pm
#55
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Indeed.
And if the luggage handlers made the guitar owner sign a fragile slip, UA will accept no liability for the breakage.
I was once forced (weak moment after 9 hours of delays, won't happen again) to check my tiny hand luggage case. Luggage handler gave me a "fragile" tag to sign which I refused ... and UA STILL refused to pay for the ripped-off handle and wheels. Took me some serious effort to get the compensation as all the records showed that I "accepted" to have the bag checked.
What is the TSA's stance here anyway? Isn't especially an electronic guitar a "dual purpose item" which ought to be checked?
And if the luggage handlers made the guitar owner sign a fragile slip, UA will accept no liability for the breakage.
I was once forced (weak moment after 9 hours of delays, won't happen again) to check my tiny hand luggage case. Luggage handler gave me a "fragile" tag to sign which I refused ... and UA STILL refused to pay for the ripped-off handle and wheels. Took me some serious effort to get the compensation as all the records showed that I "accepted" to have the bag checked.
What is the TSA's stance here anyway? Isn't especially an electronic guitar a "dual purpose item" which ought to be checked?
Jun 10, 2013, 9:39 pm
#56
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: FL 290 through FL390
Posts: 1,687
[QUOTE=1KPath;20892069]
Now the real question is..."will you be serenading us on your flights since many of UA's aircraft are going through their refurbishment and coming out without any in flight entertainment?"
Well, if the price is right....
Of course, it'll have to be set up properly through the AFM (American Federation of Musicians). I'm a unionist, after all
FAB
Well, if the price is right....
Of course, it'll have to be set up properly through the AFM (American Federation of Musicians). I'm a unionist, after all
FAB
Jun 10, 2013, 10:25 pm
#57
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,686
What should CO's staff have done different then - when the plane is full, the overheads filled??? Kick someone's properly sized hand luggage out (as they did once to me) ?
I just don't see how this is any different from any other cracked bag case? There is no space, oversized item must be checked. This is neither unusual nor a "PR disaster". Luggage breaks all the time, especially if you fly UACO. Guitar owner appears overly whiny that their noise generator got dented. That's all.
?I just don't see how this is any different from any other cracked bag case? There is no space, oversized item must be checked. This is neither unusual nor a "PR disaster". Luggage breaks all the time, especially if you fly UACO. Guitar owner appears overly whiny that their noise generator got dented. That's all.
Last month, I visited a small town in MX famous for their pottery and brought with me 2 hardsided containers filled with styrofoam, air bags, and bubble tape. I bought fragile pottery. I wrapped each piece in bubble wrap, filled the box with storofoam popcorn, then lined an outter box with styrofoam boards putting plastic bags of air layering the inner box. Of the 10 pieces I bought, 9 made it back successfully, the most fragile piece (and most expensive) broke. I am sad. I didn't run to the press, nor did I file a claim. Fragile items will break, it isn't newsworthy.
Last edited by fastair; Jun 10, 2013 at 10:31 pm
Jun 10, 2013, 10:29 pm
#58
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Jun 10, 2013, 10:32 pm
#59
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,686
Cannot buy a seat for a guitar or bass guitar. Specificly prohibited on ua.com. You can for a cello, but not a guitar.
Last edited by fastair; Jun 10, 2013 at 10:58 pm
Jun 10, 2013, 10:38 pm
#60
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