PDXPremier

I still remember the old days of UA mileage runs where you could literally connect anywhere, not just the hubs....I've connected in MDT between IAD-ORD and SBA between SFO and DEN...I miss those days Now some of the fares actually only let you connect once and it has to basically be at a hub so MRing still happens, but not with the "variety" of the past.

ibuyyoufly

I choose this one.

As an example. I was CPU'd both directions 2 weeks ago. On the outbound I wasn't even notified, I just happened to check my flight the night before and saw we didn't have our chosen Y aisle seats and an F seat had not been assigned. So less than T-24 with no seat assignment. On the return, we did get notified at +/- T-24. As a Plat, that should be earlier.

Needless to say, they are holding out applying CPU's until the very last minute in hopes of upselling F seats. I guess if I had this kind of financial pressure and a spotlight on me, I would do the same.

exerda

You still can on some routes; I haven't been able to fathom the logic of which ones require hub connections (and of those, which require particular hubs) vs. those which can connect nearly anywhere.

.bomb has offered me stuff like IAD-DSM-DEN and EWR-SYR-IAD recently. But then, when I try to connect at LAX instead of SFO on a particular routing to avoid potential WX in SFO (and of course the whole T1 UX fiasco), UA treats it as two end-on-end one-ways instead of a connection and thus skyrockets the price.

BlackMountain

I would say two main reasons:

1. Capacity has declined and for the same capacity, the elimination of wide body domestic flying (at least out of ORD) in favor of A320s/737s or smaller has also reduced the ratio of F/Y seats. I can remember at times in the past, flying 747s ORD-SFO/DEN/LAX and DC-10s to SEA, LAS, and PHL. As far as I can tell, over time those twin aisle flights have dwindled to the point that today, they are all gone. If you had some schedule flexibility and wanted to seek out an easier upgrade, you could schedule towards those flights, now you can't. Even if those seats are replaced with the equivalent single aisle capacity with more frequency, those planes carry a lower percentage of premium seats relative to the planes they replaced. An A319 only has 8 F seats, an A320 12. I look for 757 flights because it has 24 in F, but that plane isn't made anymore and will probably be replaced by 737-9s long term, those have 20 F seats.

2. I don't fly mainline but about 1-2x a month, but my impression is that where I used to have good odds at the gate, I don't anymore. If I haven't cleared before T-24, I'm not going to. Either a GS will get it or United will find a way to sell it for whatever incremental revenue it can get, where before United would hold that seat for a full boat walk up F ticket before giving it away just prior to departure. It doesn't help that the mainline flights I take always have had long upgrade lists - my ORD-SNA flight tomorrow already has 20 people on the wait list and I'm sitting at No. 3 with the F cabin booked full, the lists for an SFO-ORD are usually pretty daunting as well.

mherdeg

In the year or two before the merger, UA fare routing rules tightened up considerably — transcontinental fares that normally would have allowed 1-3 transfers suddenly required nonstop travel or grudgingly permitted a single stop.

I think you'd see a lot more pax taking fewer-stop itineraries if it weren't for the CO-style pricing on hub-to-hub travel.

hobo13

Shouldn't this thread be merged with the CPU thread?

I mean, I hate mega-threads as much as anybody, but it is what it is. And this is just another thread about CPUs.

golfingboy

Possible, but I suspect most are "forced" to connect as it is significantly cheaper. Corporate travel policies have changed over the years and agents will not book people on flights that costs 2-3x more without a very good reason [nope, it is direct is not good enough in most cases].

As for me, I despise the idea of flying United Express for 2+ hours, let alone 3+ hours. So, I will fly obnoxious routings to avoid flying PIT-IAH/DEN on the E145/CR7/E170/etc. Or, I will fly to IAD/CLE/ORD/EWR to catch a mainline flight for my 3-4 hours flight to the west coast.

As for upgrades, OP, you got one of many rationalizations/factors correct. There is also synergies which results in significantly less F capacity domestically. There is also MMers who gave status to spouse/significant other/family, which inflates the upgrade list. YBM policy. Buy ups. Monetization of F cabin [V/H/Q-UPs]. More paid F/C customers [in the past LH paid F/C customers flying from FRA to OKC could chose between connecting in ORD/DEN onto UA or in IAH onto CO, but now it is just UA which results in more of those customers being funneled through certain hubs]. And a bunch of other reasons.

boss315

Whos' on First?

halls120

and capacity reduction, including the loss of the domestic 767 and 777.

NYC1K

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... why fly EWR-ORD non-stop for $750 when I can do EWR-FRA-ORD for $748 or EWR-IAD-LAX-ORD for $375!!!!!!!!!

ibuyyoufly

Exactly! CPU's at best are a Soup Sandwich. It's not a benefit of the MP program and should not be taken as such. Too many foxes guarding the henhouse.

fastair

Because many people value their limited free time and choose to spend it with loved ones or orher leisure/productive activities vs sitting with restricted productivity in an aluminum tube? Not everyone mind you, but I would say "a great majority". Time=money either via lost productivity to an employer, or to a person who puts value on their own time. Everyone values time differently, me, I value it at about 1.5x my hourly wage (overtime) which covers straight time plus any benefits I get that are not increased incrementally by working additional (insurance...)

jgsx

This one still makes me scratch my head. 1K is not top tier.

channa

Connections in non-competitive hub-to-hub markets commonly less expensive. It's a function of very high fares between the markets. Also, keep in mind that in many captive markets, UA requires a 3-night min or Saturday stay. So the fare rules are often advantageous piecing together two (2) flights if you're not able to meet the min stay on the lowest fares. I just priced an IAH-SFO one-way for $660, when an IAH-AUS-SFO was $174.

As for the OP's question, the Y/B/M-Up thing was new to UA in the CO world. So Silvers and Golds buying B fares can now trump 1Ks on an E fare.

Also, with the fare structure issues I just commented on, it's also not uncommon in these high-fare markets to find instant-upgrade fares that are the lowest available.

In IAH-CLE, for example, the lowest one-way fare is often an M fare, which represents an instant-up for Plats and 1Ks. So a GS may have difficulty in a market like that if a lot of Plats and 1Ks buy the lowest possible fare.

Another thing we see more often now than we did with the old UA is F being equal to or cheaper than Y.

5khours

It's not the math. It's the explanation. Could have been done in two sentences. It makes sense and it's a good insight.... just a long winded explanation.

That said, before the merger I never sat in the back. After the merger......I never sit in the back.