screwed by the system - how do I ..... constructively?
 

Shortening the story (a lot) ... I got downgraded on SFO->SYD the other night due to what we were told was a mechanical problem with the crew rest compartment heater - so those crew needed seats in C... boom, six of us get downgraded to Y.

THIS SUCKS, BUT .... HAPPENS AND THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M COMPLAINING ABOUT.

What I am complaining about is the borderline farcical way in which everything else was handled, and the half-dozen or more commitments that were made and subsequently broken.

When the SFO CSR came to get me out of my seat with the bad news, I said something like "I know how this works, just tell me the bad news." I'm moved back to Y, and I'm told "you will have a voucher in your email by the time you land". This did not happen. Whether it COULD have happened isn't relevant, if they couldn't do it, they shouldn't have said they could.

Then I'm told that within 24 hours, my GPU will be refunded. Again, it was not. And again, I don't really care (I know I'll get it back EVENTUALLY) but the point is do not make promises you can't keep.

Then the flight delays start - first we are told by the pilot that they didn't put enough fuel on board, and we have to wait 30 minutes. Grr, but whatever. Then I hear the flight attendants saying that they don't have enough meals on board, and sure enough 30 minutes later a ground catering guy comes in with a stack of meals. The online app says "Departure delayed awaiting inbound aircraft" -- which is patently false because that airplane arrived more than 5 hours before and hadn't moved from the gate.

Then when I get to Sydney, I don't have time to wait on an agent, but the purser (who was great, BTW) had taken all my information down and gave it to the agent meeting the flight. When I got off the airplane I spoke to her for a few minutes, and her direct quote was (pointing to my mobile number)

"I will call you on this number this afternoon, you have my word."

And (you guessed it) - 24+ hours later and no call.

Again, I do not care (or at least I'm not *angry*) that they took my seat. I'm beyond furious that every single time I was told that they'd do something, they didn't. What I'm trying to figure out is who can I talk to that might have some chance of actually doing something about it? And I don't even know what that is, but I'd really really like to see something approaching accountability or recognition of mistakes here.

I think most of us would shrug off one or two of those, but it seems like you got a stretch of bad luck.

If I want good service I usually fly another airline. However I'm SFO and EWR based, so UA usually gets the call.

bt

Agree on the shrug, and also on the "captive market" that I am to UA. The part that really really drives me crazy is that three people directly said "I will do <<whatever>> to help fix this" and then did not. For god's sake, if you say "I will call you" then just call. I don't even care if you don't have an answer or can't do anything to help. But just call.

You are right things happen, but where does accountability come into play here? Stories like yours scare the bejesus out of me because at 6'4" and with back issues, I would not be able to make the journey in coach (maybe if I had a bunch of coach seats to myself) - and when I hold a CONFIRMED seat in biz I expect to have that seat.

Question 1 - did they say you had to be downgraded? Could you have said "no thank you"?

Question 2 - were you given an option to take another flight? Airline?

Question 3 - where did you end up sitting in the back? Was it full? (Just curious)

Every single contact you had with the company was a FAIL. No courtesy whatsoever - it's so frustrating. What is happening, people, to this world? Does anyone care anymore!?

The OP is being too nice IMO, I wouldn't be furious as he said, things happen, but as another said, call and say, "I have no answers for you but wanted to follow up..."

Compensation: 30,000 miles + the difference between economy and business class. Per person.

At a minimum.

What a bummer, sorry you did not get C from SFO to SYD.

Awful story but what makes it that much worse is the distance - I've flown that route many times, and the 14-15 hours in Y is absolutely the worst flying experience I've ever had, simply as a function of the length. Adding the frustrations and delays to a flight of that length magnifies the impact.

The GG OVS DOWNGRADE policy stipulates that you get a $1,500 downgrade voucher on the spot. The SFO agent should have done this, but keep in mind the systems are so bad, that it takes several minutes per person to do the voucher (and rebook the downgrade, etc.). If there were a few people to downgrade, that would have been significant time, and at the time, the delay was not known.

My last downgrade took about 20 minutes to process, and that was once I made the agent aware that the F cabin was oversold. Their systems are not visually appealing, and things that are pertinent to them are not always prominently displayed.

The GPU refund process is not always automatic. It's supposed to be, but it also depends on how they handled the downgrade. Were you issued a coach BP? Did your reservation show you flew in coach? It's possible the agent got too busy and did not process the downgrade (remember the time it takes to do stuff in the system multiplied by the number of customers impacted). If they did not downgrade you in the computer, the GPU would have been used (and it will make your claim more difficult).

Just curious, did they give you an option to fly the next day, either via LAX or SFO?

These Syd flights always seem to have lots of upgraders. What is the current UA policy of downgrading? It seems strange to me that a 1K on a W class ticket would have been downgraded on this flight. Even if status is no longer used for downgrade sorting, the class of ticket should have seen a miles upgrade be downgraded before a W class. I bet the GA just wanted your particular seat for crew rest and couldn't be bothered sorting it out.....

I realize that all airlines have issues (especially U.S. carriers), but I would let your wallet do the talking.

At some point (which I have passed) having consistent service/product is worth more than schedule convenience.

I moved all my business (except leftover FF mileage tickets) from UA to AA and have not looked back.

Yep, I had a similar situation last year with a d/g on DXB-IAD. I didn't get the $1,500 voucher until I got UA Insider involved thru FT...I know it is dissappointing to have people promise you stuff. Obviosuly, they are just doing it to gid rid of the customer, knowing that the customer has little or no way to track them back after...:td:

Reading all these posts make me hope for a "What to do in a downgrade situation" wiki. The only time it's every happened to me was LGA-IAD on a PMUA regional jet. The gate agent was awesome, came on board, said there was issue with overbooked F and gave me a $400 voucher. I was more than pleased.

With all the new downgrade shenanigans that I've read about during the past year, I want to be prepared for what I should do. With my luck, I know I have a downgrade coming.

I know about GG OVS Downgrade, but is the bottom line to always demand some form of compensation before moving out of your seat? Before the door closes? It seems like the new UA doesn't think it needs to compensate for people that got into F for free (be it CPU, RPU, GPU, miles, etc).

How else can this be dealt with. If they told me I was being moved to Y on a 14 hour flight, I would tell them to go [jump in the lake], no chance. If you have a business class ticket how can they force you into the Y torture chamber for half a day? Why should paying customers get screwed over, let the crew rest in Y.

I hate that attitude! It is not "for free." IT may not be paid for with money, but some kind of currency is used, whether miles, certs, etc.

In one sense or another, we have worked heard to earn that alternative currency.

This is not accurate.

The downgrade policy explicitly addresses this. Any downgrade, irrespective of how one got into the premium cabin, gets the voucher + fare difference. Now if you were on a CPU, there is no fare difference to return, but you still get the voucher.

The issue is not that the policy is not reasonable, it's perfectly fine. The issues are awareness on the front line of the policy and the cumbersome nature of the computer system which deters execution of said policy.

When you're looking at 10-20 minutes per downgrade x 6 downgrades, unless you have an army of agents twiddling their thumbs, that's a very labor intensive undertaking for an already busy agent trying to get a flight out.

So even if the agent is aware of the process (not a given), it's often orders of magnitude easier to kick the can down the line and blow off the customer than to do the right thing because the systems are so bad. And unless the customer knows about the correct procedure, chances are the BS will work.

I agree that the distinction between paid and upgraded/awarded is not valid.

I do however feel that there is a difference between confirmed in business at time of booking (via money, miles, or GPU) vs. in business at any later time.

If I had a confirmed seat in business at time of booking, I would likely walk off the plane rather than be downgraded for a very long flight. If I got into business off the wait list, I would have already demonstrated my (at least theoretical) willingness to travel in economy.

do you ahve the gg text/wording for this? i had a downrade and got nothing. i asked for gg downgrade comp and the said cpu is nada. no voucher.

gg ovs downgrade

I totally agree that the written policy is there, but agents don't follow it. I'm just afraid so many agents today would say that I'm owed nothing because I'm on a "free" upgrade. I guess I'm just polling the forum to see how much of a "fit" I should pitch when this does happen to me. What's the appropriate reaction?

The biggest part of the policy they don't follow, IME, is the ordering of the downgrades. IME, if you're in the affected seat, it's you, irrespective of ticket type.

I have read more stories about premium cabin downgrades on United in the past year than I did in the previous 5 years combined!

screwed by the system - how do I ..... constructively?
 

I'm curious as well. If it is a CPU instead of an instrument or miles and $, can you still get downgrade comp?

Already asked and answered in this thread.

Hm, did not realize that.

Had a downgrade when they substituted a CRJ from a CR7 when my CPU cleared several days before the flight (IAH-SAN-IAH of course did not).

Now at DAL it's an AA crew, so they may not even know about the policy :rolleyes:

So I can try to get compensation for this downgrade three or four weeks ago?

EmailKid

I presume you were sitting upstairs? Interesting new risk vector for selecting upper deck. Also made me think of the sick of maintenance issues with 747 (or was it 757?)

On another UA flight they should just give you a free confirmed upgrade with no stipulations just ask for a confirmed upgrade on any overseas flight. Plus an additional miles would be great.

Will try to answer the questions/comments...

They did not say I *had* to be downgraded, but the SFO CSR did say something along the lines of "it was either this or cancel the flight"... and since they were moving other people as well, it was hard to imagine that they didn't have an actual problem to solve. Now as to how the "unlucky six" were chosen.. I have no way of knowing whether that was fair, or completely random, or whether they just went looking for suckers.

I was not given the option to take another flight. At the point they came and talked to me, we were about 15 minutes away from the scheduled departure time, and the entire boarding process was deep into chaotic.

I ended up sitting in 45H, exit row aisle. The flight was something like 80% full in the back - there were quite a few empty middle seats in the outboard sets of three. The initial seat "offering" was 45J, which is the exit row with the slide at your feet. When that was offered I said something like "there is zero chance I'm flying 15 hours in that seat - that seat shouldn't even be legal to sell to an adult passenger."

I was issued a coach BP (which I took a picture of in the presumption that at some point I might need evidence).

At no point was "flying the next day" discussed... In my case I wouldn't have taken that option, but it wasn't offered. Without ever explicitly saying so, the demeanor of the agent implied that I could basically move, or we could sit there on the ground until I moved. While I did not aggressively resist the move, I made it pretty clear I wasn't happy. I did say something like "this upgrade cleared two weeks ago, how are there not six people below me on the priority list?"... that question was basically ignored.

Fare/instrument: the flight was booked in H class and upgraded with a GPU. Am i within my rights (or common sense) to request an additional voucher for the something like $400 that I paid to up-fare to an H? When I booked there were seats available in S that were about $800 less R/T.

As far as moving to another airline ... well... I'm a captive. UA is our primary corporate partner. They happen to fly nonstop on the route that's most important to what I do professionally (RDU-SFO) as well as have the best access to places I want to go personally (SYD and most of western Europe). For corporate travel we're required to purchase rock bottom economy fares, which I can usually wrangle into something upgradeable. This particular trip was booked with my own money, which is rare, and possibly part of the reason that it's even more agitating.

Question (relevant to the general conversation but not to me): is GG OVS DOWNGRADE only applicable to overwater/longhaul? Or are there breakouts in the policy for different types of downgrades?

I was NOT sitting upstairs, I was originally seated in 7A.

I want to fly on an airline that takes care of me. If they forcibly separate me from my seat, as part of the compensation they should give me a voucher that allows me to upgrade immediately from any fare class (OK maybe just the one they bumped me back to or higher) on any future flight I choose, forcing upgrade space as necessary.

Unfortunately no airline I've heard of does this.

No, no, and yes (distance-based chart).

Wow - tough grader you are... Asking for a travel credit to refund the money I gave them specifically to upgrade a segment that was then taken away from me is unreasonable? I've read infinite numbers of FT posts that seem far less justifiable than this. Given how they hand out travel vouchers for what appears to be any whiny thing, this doesn't seem all that crazy.

Unfortunately it appears that nobody here knows what the current UA criteria is for selecting people to downgrade (if there is one) so we don't know if you were selected correctly or not (I suspect not, a 1K on a H fare, either status or fare should have kept you in C on this flight). If you were subject to an incorrect selection for downgrade I think you would have more chance of compensation above what has been discussed.

OP, have you written in to 1KVoice asking them to address this matter and noting the GG Downgrade comp policy you believe should be applied?

You didn't give them the money specifically to upgrade. Money specifically to upgrade would be a copay, which is refunded when you're downgraded. You chose to buy a fare other than the lowest available, which has a variety of possible differences, including but not limited to change fees, cancellation fees, number of layovers, stopovers permitted and cost, combinability, etc.

You're supposed to get the upgrade instrument back plus the voucher specified in GG OVS DOWNGRADES. You won't get back, and it is unreasonable to demand back, any fare difference for choices you made.

It's not that crazy, especially compared to all the other stuff that ppl try to get compensation for. Definitely worth aksing for the travel credit. I certainly would. Worst they can do is say "no".

I have not emailed 1kvoice. Is that simply [email protected]? or something else?

And today I received an email from the SYD CSR saying "we made a mistake, your amount is $1000 instead of $1500." At which point I nearly threw the phone through the wall, as even the SFO CSR who moved me out of C said very clearly that it was $1500. I told them I wanted the original 1500 plus the fare difference for S->H. I'm in complete agreement that when I initially book a ticket in H rather than S I'm doing so at my own risk. But when they upgrade me, two weeks before the flight, and then very possibly downgrade me based on incorrect priority, and then yank me around (probably more of out cluelessness rather than malice, but I don't much care which) ... I don't think what I'm asking for is unreasonable here.

If the policy is $1500 then that is what you should get and any instrument you used back. I seriously doubt you will get the fare difference S to H. When you buy a higher fare to increase your chances of an upgrade it is still not guaranteed. It is a gamble. A gamble you thought had paid off but in reality you paid for coach and sat in coach. If you want a guarantee of business or first then you must buy a business or first ticket. If they were to refund you the difference it would set a precedence for all those W fares people bought and did not get upgraded on. Not going to happen.

Yep, that's the address. And while I can understand your frustration, if you take a deep breath and think about it, $1500 is pretty significant comp for an upgrade that didn't clear at the time of purchase. And it's more generous than other airlines would offer. If you can get that and the SWU back, I'd say that's pretty substantial -- and that further efforts for the one way S to H difference (which you are unlikely to get) are probably not worth the time or mental energy.

That said, you may want to ask for information on why you were chosen as one of the ones to give up a seat, and see if they give you a straight answer or not....

All due respect but I disagree. When I buy a W fare and it does not clear, I understand the risk/reward equation that I'm participating in. When I want to book a ticket, and I'm told that at the time of booking I can confirm an upgrade with fare class XXX, and then it's given and subsequently taken away, that's when I think there is something that needs to be fixed. If you never clear the upgrade that's fine. But when you clear the upgrade, and then take it away, that's when the compensation needs to appear.

And there was compensation. $1000 (should have been $1500). Which is probably more than the difference in fare.

This is how I view it as well, although it stinks, I dont know if any carrier has the ability to go in and see at the time the passenger purchased their tkt could they have instead purchased a fare that was less money.

Now had no $$$ compensation been given and only the Instrument use dto UP been Refunded I would feel different. But since Compensation of $xxxx is being Given = case closed, but Im sure the OP will peruse a refund in afre difference anyway