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Jeff comments on loss of "unmanaged" corporate traffic/PRASM at JP Morgan conference.

Jeff comments on loss of "unmanaged" corporate traffic/PRASM at JP Morgan conference.

Old Mar 4, 13, 11:10 pm
  #76  
 
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i was what ua labeled a managed traveller.....little did they know i figured it out before they did....status match from the widget, purchased J tickets from the sand box via atl to cities served with delta mainline equipment instead of flying the jungle jets or barbie jets was enough from me to switch and not look back, is atl any better???oh hell no...but....its nice to know that when my feet hit the usa, im gonna be riding on a md88,md90,738 or if luck falls upon me a 757 to --all-- the cities i need to flow thru to get my job accomplished in the short time i get to visit to usa. one word to jeff and his bean counters.......your esteemed flying partners(some of who fly on the delta side as well) are the most dysfunctional bunch of idiots i have ever dealt with and thank god everyday i do not have to avail myself of that type of travel again....gojet and trans states to be exact.
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Old Mar 4, 13, 11:37 pm
  #77  
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Originally Posted by cova View Post

Is DL and AA losing "managed" corporate travelers?
An interesting comment from Doug Parker on corporate accounts at the JP Morgan conference:

"you actually do a much better job with corporate clients by being able to sell to them the world. And that's -- there's some share shift back to American/US Airways that we've lost to Delta/Northwest"

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1245...p=qanda&l=last

Transcript is an interesting read, Parker repeatedly slams UA, and everyone in the room recalling the "ugly girl" comment by Jeff, knows who he is talking about, making it clear that he is not going to use the UA playbook. Painting planes is low on his list (people care about what is inside), will use the bigger airlines systems, mistake to not do this, and will focus on increasing revenue performance, not cutting costs, etc.
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Old Mar 5, 13, 6:11 am
  #78  
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Originally Posted by 5khours View Post
The problem is that customers have a choice of which airline to fly and more importantly they have a choice of whether or not to fly.

Current management doesn't get this. They're trying to maximize revenue per seat today instead of trying maximize revenue per customer this year (and next year).
Exactly. I'm flying IAD-LAX next week. normally this would mean UA on both flights, but because AA has a nonstop DCA-LAX that is $100 less than the UA IAD-LAX flight, you can guess which one I'm taking. Oh, and I'll have a better UG opportunity on AA.
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Old Mar 5, 13, 6:28 am
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC View Post
I bet "managed" is basically anyone they have corporate discounted pricing with.

Unsurprising that those of us who are "unmanaged" bailed somewhat/mostly much more quickly given our flexibility
That's EXACTLY what it is. Every time our sales person visits us with more SWU'S & more offers of discounts etc his sales presentation always comes around to what we are "losing out on" by not being a managed customer
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Old Mar 5, 13, 6:49 am
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Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr View Post
That's EXACTLY what it is. Every time our sales person visits us with more SWU'S & more offers of discounts etc his sales presentation always comes around to what we are "losing out on" by not being a managed customer
Next time he says that to you, can you print a few threads from FT then ask him to explain why you would want those things that you are missing? I would love for you to show him my 1/14 post and ask him why you might want more treatment like that?
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Old Mar 5, 13, 8:30 am
  #81  
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Thanks for the post and the link. He's totally tone-deaf. The idea that I've shifted 30K of travel this year away from UA (as one of the many "un-managed" business travelers) because of operational issues is a farce. I did it because they started treating me like my business didn't matter. Plain and simple. He's going to have a hell of a time winning me back merely by running on time. What a mental midget.
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Old Mar 5, 13, 8:45 am
  #82  
 
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC View Post
There's an arrogance in his thinking - "we have a big network, operations are good, of course they'll come back and fly us".
How is this arrogant? It's the truth. If you've got everyone else beat on network and your ops are good, that's a recipe for success.

Originally Posted by SFO777 View Post
+1
I am a no status kettle to UA. Was offered and accept a round trip upgrade on this past weekend's DEN-SFO-DEN trip.
Cost a total of $616 for RT First. Only 3 (of 16) and 4 (of 24) elites were upgraded on my flights.
To be honest, if you're willing to pay $616 for DEN-SFO-DEN in F, I'm happy Jeff is selling you the seat. I'm not willing to pay more than $300 for that in F, so more power to you. C'mon, it's short-haul F!

Last edited by unavaca; Mar 5, 13 at 8:51 am
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Old Mar 5, 13, 9:06 am
  #83  
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Originally Posted by unavaca View Post
How is this arrogant? It's the truth. If you've got everyone else beat on network and your ops are good, that's a recipe for success....
It's not a recipe for success - do we want an airline that fills aircraft with people who are buying because they have no other option and don't want to be there, or do we want an airline that fills aircraft with people who are buying because they believe UA is a great product and that is their airline of choice?

If the former, that's a pretty dangerous way to run a business.
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Old Mar 5, 13, 9:15 am
  #84  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
It's not a recipe for success - do we want an airline that fills aircraft with people who are buying because they have no other option and don't want to be there, or do we want an airline that fills aircraft with people who are buying because they believe UA is a great product and that is their airline of choice?

If the former, that's a pretty dangerous way to run a business.
I'd rather it be the former than the latter. Ops are part of the product they sell and if they can't get the ops right, the product is garbage. I'll take ops and network over "believing it's a great product" any day of the week.
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Old Mar 5, 13, 9:20 am
  #85  
 
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Originally Posted by unavaca View Post
To be honest, if you're willing to pay $616 for DEN-SFO-DEN in F, I'm happy Jeff is selling you the seat. I'm not willing to pay more than $300 for that in F, so more power to you. C'mon, it's short-haul F!
I don't really have a problem with this, either. The $616 upsell is much closer to the actual pricing of the F seat on that route. A $59 upgrade "special offer" with elites still on the waitlist is far more maddening... fortunately I have not encountered that scenario in my travels since March 1, 2012 on a CO flight EWR-RSW.
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Old Mar 5, 13, 9:23 am
  #86  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
It's not a recipe for success - do we want an airline that fills aircraft with people who are buying because they have no other option and don't want to be there, or do we want an airline that fills aircraft with people who are buying because they believe UA is a great product and that is their airline of choice?

If the former, that's a pretty dangerous way to run a business.
i'll take the former for my business travel. at the end of the day i need to get from point A to point B to make my meeting as quickly as i can, as reliably as i can. all other things take a back seat.

for my personal travel i still want the former. i mean i definitely want a nice product that lets me relax. the network still matters though because i'm on vacation time and again, i want to spend more time with my family or on the beach rather than sitting on a marginally nicer seat on my third leg on the inbound. i also don't want to be stranded somewhere due to MX issues.

both ways the route network and operations are crucial to me. i would have gladly stuck with AA if i didn't have to sit making connections all the time. UA's nitpicking and monetizing every little thing is quite annoying though and eventually i will reach a breaking point where i get fed up with it. but the fact that i can get direct almost anywhere in the world i want to go is still a huge selling point for me. thankfully i also haven't been burned by UA's international MX issues. i fly to PVG a few times a year and have heard horror stories about 3 day MX delays on their 772's and i'm thanking my lucky stars i haven't been hit by that yet...
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Old Mar 5, 13, 9:25 am
  #87  
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
Yes we all want a reliable airline, and yes, we would prefer staff don't dump their crap on us, but if all we wanted was a reliable airline with happy staff, we'd all be flying Southwest.
And if all he is going to give us is a reliable airline with a great network, he isn't giving us anything better than what the competition offers.
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Old Mar 5, 13, 9:25 am
  #88  
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Originally Posted by unavaca View Post
I'd rather it be the former than the latter. Ops are part of the product they sell and if they can't get the ops right, the product is garbage. I'll take ops and network over "believing it's a great product" any day of the week.
Operations *is* part of the product, but you wrote their arrogance about network coverage is just fine - which ignores the fact that customers still have a choice and can book elsewhere.

I have two customers who book and pay business or first exclusively - they want the *A network, but absolutely hate UA. They joined the SQ program instead and fly SQ in paid premium class at all times and would never fly UA except for short domestic flights within the US.

*A is a great network alliance because it provides a variety of options, many of which do not including flying UA.
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Old Mar 5, 13, 9:29 am
  #89  
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Originally Posted by unavaca View Post
How is this arrogant? It's the truth. If you've got everyone else beat on network and your ops are good, that's a recipe for success. ....
Originally Posted by unavaca View Post
I'd rather it be the former than the latter. Ops are part of the product they sell and if they can't get the ops right, the product is garbage. I'll take ops and network over "believing it's a great product" any day of the week.
What folks are saying is network / ops are necessary items for successful but of themselves alone are not sufficient for success. There are other factors that matter -- for some it maybe price, for others it may be service, .... loyalty reward .... schedule .....

Network & ops are important / necessary but there is more to a person's choice in provider.
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Old Mar 5, 13, 9:36 am
  #90  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
It's not a recipe for success - do we want an airline that fills aircraft with people who are buying because they have no other option and don't want to be there, or do we want an airline that fills aircraft with people who are buying because they believe UA is a great product and that is their airline of choice?

If the former, that's a pretty dangerous way to run a business.
Originally Posted by unavaca View Post
I'd rather it be the former than the latter. Ops are part of the product they sell and if they can't get the ops right, the product is garbage. I'll take ops and network over "believing it's a great product" any day of the week.
Originally Posted by WineCountryUA View Post
What folks are saying is network / ops are necessary items for successful but of themselves alone are not sufficient for success. There are other factors that matter -- for some it maybe price, for others it may be service, .... loyalty reward .... schedule .....

Network & ops are important / necessary but there is more to a person's choice in provider.
Agree with WineCountryUA. While the core reason for the airline to exist is to fly the customer to the desired location (network) in a timely fashion (ops), there are other factors. Especially when you consider there will only be 3.5 major players in the market (UA, DL, AA, WN is .5), all three legacies can get you to just about any city domestically or internationally with their partners.

At the end of the day, rewarding loyalty DOES matter, because the competition also has the network and ops.
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