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Jeff comments on loss of "unmanaged" corporate traffic/PRASM at JP Morgan conference.

Jeff comments on loss of "unmanaged" corporate traffic/PRASM at JP Morgan conference.

Old Mar 4, 13, 7:44 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
I understand that data point, but I'm trying to figure out what effect is being felt by folks here and whether the effect is restricted to specific hubs and/or routes while others experience no difference.
got it
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Old Mar 4, 13, 7:54 pm
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by halls120 View Post
My usual routes are IAD/SFO and IAD/LAX, and since they pulled all the WBs off those routes and started aggressively selling UGs, my UG clearance rate went from above 80% to below 50%.
This is our domestic pattern as well...our organization has anywhere from 30-75 employees per week on these routes. Prior to the merger our employee upgrade rate was nearly 80%...and this included quite a few premier and premier execs (the GS and 1Ks were nearly 100%) Since the merger, the upgrade rate has gone to below 40% including the GSs and 1Ks! It is no wonder that many of our people are flying AA, B6 and others...especially since there are non-stops to DCA avoiding the pit called IAD...these AA and AS flights are terrific!
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Old Mar 4, 13, 8:05 pm
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by IflyfromABE View Post
A. I do not see "mismanagement" when they are finally making $. And they are making $ and this is the job of a CEO

B. I would not call anyone "incopetent" (sic) if I were spelling like a 5th grader.
You do realize UA was making money before the merger.
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Old Mar 4, 13, 8:08 pm
  #64  
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Originally Posted by 1KPath View Post
This is our domestic pattern as well...our organization has anywhere from 30-75 employees per week on these routes. Prior to the merger our employee upgrade rate was nearly 80%...and this included quite a few premier and premier execs (the GS and 1Ks were nearly 100%) Since the merger, the upgrade rate has gone to below 40% including the GSs and 1Ks! It is no wonder that many of our people are flying AA, B6 and others...especially since there are non-stops to DCA avoiding the pit called IAD...these AA and AS flights are terrific!
I think the best course of action is to gather as much data as possible to check for upgrade offers (fare difference) vs low priced segment fee offers made to Kettles and finding the latter, submit to Mitchmu for escalation when he meets the executive contact.

Could the difference be attributed to lower M or B fares on the route triggering purchases into F? Are P or Z fares offered?
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Old Mar 4, 13, 8:14 pm
  #65  
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
Could the difference be attributed to lower M or B fares on the route triggering purchases into F? Are P or Z fares offered?
The M fare benefit for 1Ks has been neutered by the omnipresence of the V/Q-ups on many routes. And of course, despite having a so-called advance purchase requirement, they seem to be offered inside T-24.

Still haven't ever gotten any clarity either from official sources on GMs getting cheaper offers than elites
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Old Mar 4, 13, 8:34 pm
  #66  
 
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Clearly UA wants to keep TODs but maybe they just need to make some adjustments to their formulas (including increasing some of those insanely low purchases) to make everyone happy -- i'm willing to compromise.

Maybe (depending on the market of course) dedicated the remaining F cabin (at T-120) to 70% CPUs, 15% Upgrades on Check-in (with discounts for elites), 15% Upgrades @ the gate (and if no one purchases an upgrade at some set time like T-1, reallocate that 10% to the gate).

Implementing something like that, however, would be a different story.
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Old Mar 4, 13, 8:52 pm
  #67  
 
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No more commuters. ERJ170 or A319's.....
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Old Mar 4, 13, 8:57 pm
  #68  
 
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confluence of good news or luck?

I checked in for ORD-SFO-PVG. RPU'S cleared a week ago, so first leg looks good. I notice Wifi is available on the A319. Decent E+ seat on second leg. One hour ten to connect.

Weather looks bad. I see the waiver and call UA with zero hold time. I've been messed up by a mechanical with this short layover so I call and ask to be put on the direct flight. Lots of hold but the answer is yes. I ask if I can pay up to W fare and use SWU (never cleared on SFO-PVG). The answer is yes. I get one of 5 open C seats and its a nice one!

Is this a start of something new? I am really hoping so.
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Old Mar 4, 13, 9:48 pm
  #69  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
I think the best course of action is to gather as much data as possible to check for upgrade offers (fare difference) vs low priced segment fee offers made to Kettles and finding the latter, submit to Mitchmu for escalation when he meets the executive contact.

Could the difference be attributed to lower M or B fares on the route triggering purchases into F? Are P or Z fares offered?
To be clear, I offer to help with this case:

Two pax on same trip, 1K/GS gets no TOD offer. GM/kettle gets TOD.
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Old Mar 4, 13, 9:52 pm
  #70  
 
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Originally Posted by LASUA1K View Post
You do realize UA was making money before the merger.
...and that they're not really making money now.
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Old Mar 4, 13, 9:59 pm
  #71  
 
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Originally Posted by cova View Post
Large "managed" corporate accounts have all the majors as perferred carriers - with negotiated discount contracts. UA/AA/DL/US. So a business traveler can fly any one of these carriers and meet corporate guidelines. Each of these also match the others FF program with corporate status matches.

So when a business traveler who used to get frequent upgrades, stops getting them, they get a corporate status match and try someone else. When they start seeing upgrades with that new carrier - then they start flying them and stop flying the other.

Is DL and AA losing "managed" corporate travelers?
Originally Posted by mitchmu View Post
How do you know this?

Every company I have worked for has been locked into one of the major legacy carriers, and flying on anything but the approved carrier has required an escalation and special approval. These are all large organizations - Fortune 500.
I work for one of these very large multi-national companies. Our corporate approved airlines include UA, US, and DL and AA for domestic, plus all the major foreign airlines (including LH, AC, SQ, AF, KL, depending on the route)for international travels. After DL completed merge with NW, I received an unsolicited offer for Gold status on DL.

Domestic airfares are not really discounted from what I can find out UAL.com, but international fares are discounted with higher fare basis code, typically H for UA TATL lowest economy fares.

I can choose any approved carrier as long the airfare is not out of line with lowest available. I am an unmanaged 'managed' business traveller.
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Old Mar 4, 13, 9:59 pm
  #72  
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Originally Posted by mitchmu View Post
To be clear, I offer to help with this case:

Two pax on same trip, 1K/GS gets no TOD offer. GM/kettle gets TOD.
There is just zero excuse for this - I hope there is an opportunity to bring this up when you have the executive meeting.

I think if you polled 1000 UA Plat/1K folks who are aware of what is going on, this scenario is probably the number one issue right now across the entire group.
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Old Mar 4, 13, 10:08 pm
  #73  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post

I understand certain city pairs are going to be hard - SFO>anywhere, DEN> California/SEA/ORD, EWR/California, etc. - but if everyone goes to the PDA site and does some statistical sampling on their usual routes over a few days, are you all seeing the number of upgraded passengers at 20% or less of the F capacity? Or are the complaints specific to a collection of highly traveled hubs or city pairs?
Being based out of SFO I am part of the "most elite heavy hub" in the system and I also fly SFO to east coast. But I also fly many other random flights not involving those two locations. In general I am seeing elite waitlist counts see an increase in size by 50-100% in the last few months. I am also sitting at the same or lower on the list even though I am a higher status. Whether this is more elites or TODs pushing out elites, I do not know...
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Old Mar 4, 13, 10:54 pm
  #74  
 
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The problem is that Jeff doesn't understand that the key to success is balancing efficiency against customer satisfaction.

You can speed up the boarding process and improve your on time performance by not letting 1K and GF board in leisurely fashion.

You can improve PRASM by selling TODs.

The problem is that customers have a choice of which airline to fly and more importantly they have a choice of whether or not to fly.

Current management doesn't get this. They're trying to maximize revenue per seat today instead of trying maximize revenue per customer this year (and next year).
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Old Mar 4, 13, 10:55 pm
  #75  
 
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Originally Posted by mitchmu View Post
My experience has been different. I've been told to stick with contract carrier because the organization gets a big discount that's not shown in the published fare, and, because they need volume to meet commitments and get to lower tiers.

Perhaps this isn't the norm, but it is what I've experienced.
i think it depends on the company. i have friends that are AMs for UA, and they definitely have managed contracts with large companies to fly specifically on UA. basically, spend X with us a year, and we will give you Y discount on Y/C/F fares. but those companies are tied to UA.

and yes, managed are companies that are on signed deals.
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