Jeff comments on loss of "unmanaged" corporate traffic/PRASM at JP Morgan conference.
#46
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
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Imagine that. The 1K who normally flies last minute on business to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars a year decides to stop flying your airline altogether (basically what Smisek admitted here). And why? Because you decided it was worth more to get a extra $150 out of the guy who never flies instead of "give away" the upgrade for "free" because the 1K happened to buy a cheap ticket for the weekend to visit his son in college. After all, apparently the 1Ks only care about on-time performance and a smile from the front-line employees. Oops.
Maybe they did the math and found out that (X*$150)>($1K), which is not hard to conceive. Lets say a 1K spends $55k a year on UA. Thats selling one $150 upgrade a day to compensate for that supposed lost revenue. Assuming they sell, lets say, 100 systemwide, $150 upgrades a day, and thats a very low estimate - that can compensate for 100 1Ks leaving. Not to mention, those 1Ks are also a drain on the system in other ways in terms of having to provide perks.
we dont know how the beancounters work.
Last edited by rankourabu; Mar 4, 2013 at 5:44 pm
#47
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Silver
Posts: 1,155
DL has been focusing even more on operations and product enhancements, rather than loyalty program. And DL is doing great. Why should UA do anything different? A reliable operation is clearly what business travelers want the most.
#48
Join Date: Oct 2012
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B. I would not call anyone "incopetent" (sic) if I were spelling like a 5th grader.
#49
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#50
Join Date: May 2001
Location: RDU
Programs: UA Plat 2MM, Delta Gold, Hilton Gold, Marriott cardboard
Posts: 1,699
So, I'll fly US and hope UA credits the miles before the end of the year.
#51
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicago: ORD, MDW
Programs: United Million Mile Flyer, Hilton Silver, Marriott Gold, DL, AA WN
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Now, while I appreciate Economy+, I look around to see what the other airlines -including (God forgive me) Southwest- are offering.
After all, as someone else stated in this thread: "If all they want is on time performance..."
There are other choices -especially fto/rom most major airports.
#52
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
Programs: UA 1K 2MM, AA EXP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 94
I'm a 1K, traveling this week, PHX-DEN, on a 2PM flt Thurs. There will be no upgrade for me. 20 SEATS!!!!Same as last week on PHX-EWR. 20 Seats!!!!
I've been a 1K for 14 straight years. People have always asked me why I don't fly US Air(PHX Based). I told them mainly because of the way United has treated this "unmanaged" flyer. It was always my choice. I have to be freakin nuts to continue this behavior.
I accepted the offer on American to EXP Plat in 2012. I flew 10 flights...all were upgraded. I thought, it must get better at United so I'll stay....It got worse.
I'm 100k away from 2MM. Why bother...If I don't upgraded out of PHX as a 1K, then certainly it won't happen as a plat. I get all the same benefits as a gold.
I only have myself to blame. I'm done foaming like Pavlov's dog.
I've been a 1K for 14 straight years. People have always asked me why I don't fly US Air(PHX Based). I told them mainly because of the way United has treated this "unmanaged" flyer. It was always my choice. I have to be freakin nuts to continue this behavior.
I accepted the offer on American to EXP Plat in 2012. I flew 10 flights...all were upgraded. I thought, it must get better at United so I'll stay....It got worse.
I'm 100k away from 2MM. Why bother...If I don't upgraded out of PHX as a 1K, then certainly it won't happen as a plat. I get all the same benefits as a gold.
I only have myself to blame. I'm done foaming like Pavlov's dog.
#53
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,228
If this is really UA's future approach - why even maintain the Elite tiers of the program? Just sell packaged bundles or a la carte selections of benefits for domestic and international itineraries that cover everything from baggage allowances, IFE, onboard meals, lounge access, upgrades, etc. Everyone is a nobody until they take a $300 ticket and make it $400 with package A, or $600 with an upgrade to F that includes package A and a bigger seat. Fly 10k miles a year or 300K miles, it doesn't matter - it's all about revenue per ticket, not per year.
#54
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Just a side data point...I checked every daily flight today between the two cities I travel most often, through a major hub - from morning to night, more than 3/4 of the flights had upgrades that totaled 80% of F capacity or more. Assuming the buy-ups are (should not be) appearing here, I see a very healthy rate of upgrades for Elite customers.
I understand certain city pairs are going to be hard - SFO>anywhere, DEN> California/SEA/ORD, EWR/California, etc. - but if everyone goes to the PDA site and does some statistical sampling on their usual routes over a few days, are you all seeing the number of upgraded passengers at 20% or less of the F capacity? Or are the complaints specific to a collection of highly traveled hubs or city pairs?
I understand certain city pairs are going to be hard - SFO>anywhere, DEN> California/SEA/ORD, EWR/California, etc. - but if everyone goes to the PDA site and does some statistical sampling on their usual routes over a few days, are you all seeing the number of upgraded passengers at 20% or less of the F capacity? Or are the complaints specific to a collection of highly traveled hubs or city pairs?
#55
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Northern California
Programs: I want to be free! Free!
Posts: 3,446
Just a side data point...I checked every daily flight today between the two cities I travel most often, through a major hub - from morning to night, more than 3/4 of the flights had upgrades that totaled 80% of F capacity or more. Assuming the buy-ups are (should not be) appearing here, I see a very healthy rate of upgrades for Elite customers.
I understand certain city pairs are going to be hard - SFO>anywhere, DEN> California/SEA/ORD, EWR/California, etc. - but if everyone goes to the PDA site and does some statistical sampling on their usual routes over a few days, are you all seeing the number of upgraded passengers at 20% or less of the F capacity? Or are the complaints specific to a collection of highly traveled hubs or city pairs?
I understand certain city pairs are going to be hard - SFO>anywhere, DEN> California/SEA/ORD, EWR/California, etc. - but if everyone goes to the PDA site and does some statistical sampling on their usual routes over a few days, are you all seeing the number of upgraded passengers at 20% or less of the F capacity? Or are the complaints specific to a collection of highly traveled hubs or city pairs?
#56
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
UA clearly had an advantage in redeptions over skypesos a year ago, but with ON closed off and UA releasing no F/C awards at saver, MP looks more and more like skypesos.
SWUs were clearly better, but are now similar in their lack of usability to DLs.
I think that AA's program is clearly superior to both MP and skypesos at this point overall at EXP, but I don't think its fare to say DL has given up on a loyalty program, they are actually increasing the benfits.
Yes, they want to turn MP into SkyPesos, and DL wants to make skypesos more like the old MP! Funny how that is happening....
#57
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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I understand certain city pairs are going to be hard - SFO>anywhere, DEN> California/SEA/ORD, EWR/California, etc. - but if everyone goes to the PDA site and does some statistical sampling on their usual routes over a few days, are you all seeing the number of upgraded passengers at 20% or less of the F capacity? Or are the complaints specific to a collection of highly traveled hubs or city pairs?
#58
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Northern California
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Posts: 3,446
out of IAD, I think you're going to see the gov't "full fare" but not really full fare-effect.
#60
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I understand that data point, but I'm trying to figure out what effect is being felt by folks here and whether the effect is restricted to specific hubs and/or routes while others experience no difference.