Flights to London This Week

Old Feb 1, 13, 4:15 pm
  #46  
 
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Not on LH, they have much higher loads (ex-SFO) than UA.

Originally Posted by fivesixseven View Post
FRA flights are also pretty empty.
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Old Feb 1, 13, 4:19 pm
  #47  
 
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yes

Originally Posted by as219 View Post
Funny, I'm flying to London next week as well, and FWIW, it's the same story over at AA -- empty planes.

This is the traditional low season for US-UK travel, you know...
agree. back 10-15 years ago, BA would always offer their sale of SFO-LHR for less than $300. Then, around 10 years ago, it was $500. Now, it's $1000 even for low season.
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Old Feb 1, 13, 4:45 pm
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by lhrsfo View Post
There's limited room for UA to move. Below is a recent breakdown for a trip I have upcoming from LHR to SFO:

Fare Breakdown
Airfare: 144.00 GBP
U.K. Air Passenger Duty: 65.00
U.K. Passenger Service Charge: 34.46
U.S. Customs User Fee: 3.50
U.S. Immigration User Fee: 4.40
U.S. APHIS User Fee: 3.20
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax: 21.60
September 11th Security Fee: 4.80
International Surcharge: 239.00
U.S. Passenger Facility Charge: 2.80
Per Person Total: 522.76 GBP

eTicket Total: 522.76 GBP


You will see that the airfare element is listed as GBP144 out of a total of GBP522.76. Only the airfare element can be changed by UA and clearly there is a marginal cost of an extra passenger - more catering and, importantly, more fuel. Let's say that amounts to GBP44 (I haven't got a clue). That leaves GBP100 to play with. I could have got this route for about GBP50 less on US Airways and on DL, as always, but I want E+, better flight times and my benefits, including lifetime miles as I'm closing in on MM.

So, to continue the analysis, to significantly increase demand on UA, they would have to significantly undercut US and DL. What would do the trick? US and DL are charging GBP474. Would GBP450 do it, or would it have to be below GBP400? On the basis of the figures above, that leaves a marginal gain of GBP25 or a marginal loss of GBP25 approx. Obviously they have decided it's not really worth bothering with and, on the basis of the above figures, I can't really blame them.
What is the GBP239.00 surcharge? A Fuel Surcharge? It seems like that's margin that can also be played (i.e. drop the fare component to near zero and the airline still gets revenue from that surcharge).
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Old Feb 1, 13, 4:49 pm
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by GDaoV View Post
KOD
Great coining of a new term / acronym!

Love it...

edit: Realize my quoting removes the context...

KOD = Thousands of Dollars (vs. TOD or HOD)
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Old Feb 1, 13, 5:05 pm
  #50  
 
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Booked EWR-LHR-EWR two weeks ago for travel 2/18-2/23. Plenty of R class, my GPU cleared at booking and I got a Saver Pass BF ticket for the wife.
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Old Feb 1, 13, 5:49 pm
  #51  
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Originally Posted by BigPoppaCO View Post
Booked EWR-LHR-EWR two weeks ago for travel 2/18-2/23. Plenty of R class, my GPU cleared at booking and I got a Saver Pass BF ticket for the wife.
Great for you and your wife! Enjoy...

Not so good for United.
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Old Feb 1, 13, 6:10 pm
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by Rogerdodger View Post
Great for you and your wife! Enjoy...

Not so good for United.
They'll make it up on volume...
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Old Feb 1, 13, 8:13 pm
  #53  
 
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Originally Posted by LarkSFO View Post
Great coining of a new term / acronym!

Love it...

edit: Realize my quoting removes the context...

KOD = Thousands of Dollars (vs. TOD or HOD)
Or Kiss of Death... That's UA for you.

Why upgrade for 1k when I can get 2 empty rows.
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Old Feb 2, 13, 1:30 am
  #54  
 
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Was on UA34 from IAH to LHR a couple of days ago. Full in business first and about 60 people in the back on a PMCO 777. Overall about 35% pax load. I used a GPU to upgrade on a W fare when I booked about three weeks ago, and same on the return. Total fare about $1100 R/Trip from MCO.

I am sure that lower fares would fill up the plane, but oh well.
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Old Feb 3, 13, 3:59 am
  #55  
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Flew IAD to LHR twice in January. Both times GF and BF were full, coach was less than half full.

But all the TATL birds mentioned in this thread are going to continue flying even if half empty because they also carry mail and freight, don't forget.
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Old Feb 3, 13, 4:20 am
  #56  
 
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Return fare, MAN>EWR>MAN in May, W Class

As the saying goes "you couldn't walk there for that price"

Fare Breakdown
Airfare: 234.00 GBP
U.K. Air Passenger Duty: 67.00
U.K. Passenger Service Charge: 14.60
International Surcharge: 213.00
September 11th Security Fee: 3.00
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax: 21.20
U.S. APHIS User Fee: 3.10
U.S. Immigration User Fee: 4.30
U.S. Customs User Fee: 3.40
U.S. Passenger Facility Charge: 2.80
Per Person Total: 566.40
GBP
eTicket Total: 566.40
GBP
The airfare you paid on this itinerary totals: 234.00 GBP
The taxes, fees, and surcharges paid total: 332.40 GBP
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Old Feb 3, 13, 4:37 am
  #57  
 
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Originally Posted by Rogerdodger View Post
Is this for one way out of LHR? Fees are much higher leaving than arriving, correct?
This is a return trip booked ex-UK. The 65 tax applies only ex-UK. Not sure what the 34 UK passenger service fee is, although it sounds very like the c17 per pax landing fees LHR charge, doubled for two ways. A one way to LHR would not attract the 65 tax but don't know about the latter. Also not sure which of the myriad of US taxes apply to which direction.

I don't want to jinx it but it looks like I have a row to myself both directions. I'll miss the 5 across in the old 777s!
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Old Feb 3, 13, 6:37 am
  #58  
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ord-pvg was EMPTY even in business class last week...even the FA said its crazy. Perhaps because of Chinese new years?
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Old Feb 3, 13, 7:07 am
  #59  
 
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Originally Posted by why fly View Post
ord-pvg was EMPTY even in business class last week...even the FA said its crazy. Perhaps because of Chinese new years?
Seasonality. Firing customers. Economic headwinds in both countries.
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Old Feb 3, 13, 8:28 am
  #60  
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I'm going to London on Feb 8th & returning on the 19th on economy award ticket (my first time in E int'l since '96 ) ORD-LHR loads are really light. But thanks to this thread it reminded me to look for a row that might be empty/one person after the doors close. I'm currently in 20B & 21B.

On a funnier note when I booked the award ticket, UA offered me the option of upgrading the int'l flights for $8,769 - but had pointed out before I booked that instead of using miles I could book C class for $6,400. So upgrading on an award was more than actually booking C class. I declined both.

Cheers.
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