invisible

First of all, I'd like to apologize to United's FAs if they are reading this post. I just want to understand things - why they are this way and not other.

My question is - do you have to be at least 50 to work as a flight attendant on UA's (mostly international) flights? Because that's what I have seen last two yeas on SIN-NRT-SFO, SIN-HKG-SFO and bunch of US-EU destinations.

Could you help me understand why is that? Again, please understand me correctly - I am not in favor of age discrimination, (I'm quite close to that age group on my own), but I see that these FAs, mostly ladies are quite tired even before the plane takes off.

How other carriers both in Europe and especially in Asia manage to have much younger crew without compromising the quality of the service? Well, even in US Southwest manages to do it better.

Doc Savage

Why would it matter to you? Do you think you have to flirt with FAs on every flight? Sorry, I just don't understand what point you are trying to make, if any.

FriendlySkies

While the older FAs might not get a drink as fast as their younger co-workers, I do enjoy flying with the FAs that flew during the golden era of travel. Especially when flying AA, I've had some enjoyable flights with ex-TWA crews that are happy to chat. I have not had the chance of flying with an ex-Pan Am crew on UA, but I certainly hope to do so on a future flight.

zrs70

Never experienced that. Ever.

I really love the older FA's. They've been around the block. Many recall the old days of travel and some try hard to make the experience special.

B787938

I think UA doesn't discriminate because last time I checked it's against the law. In Singapore it is perfect legal to fire a FA when they reach 35.

Anyway, I like that some of the FAs on UA's TPAC flights are willing to talk about the Pam Am days when flying was glamorous and say things like, "welcome to Royal Pacific service."

roder

You have to have Union Seniority to get the flights that you want, and these FA's have it... The younger ones get stuck flying more work intensive domestic hops.

gengar

In his third paragraph, OP appears to question the physical endurance of older workers on these longhaul flights.

UrbaneGent

I don't know why someone can't just answer his question. He didn't knock anyone or showed age bias (at least I didn't think so). This is a legitimate question and might shed light on age bias in other countries. So I think this might be a teachable opportunity.

I would like to be corrected if I am wrong, but here in the US, companies can't discriminate on age, weight, gender, ethnicity, etc. That's the first part of your answer.

The second part is two-fold - (a) amount of time one has been an F/A with the airline, or "senority" and (b) the number of hours spent in the air. An F/A has to fly a certain amount of flight hours over a given period, mostly a month or 30 days, whatever it is. It also gets a little complicated because there's a maximum number of hours they can fly in a given period, which is smaller than the 30 days (say a week). I don't know the exact time periods, but it doesn't matter for your question.

Most (or all?) US international carrier's F/As go by a seniority system when it comes to them choosing routes. Those who just beginning don't have much of a choice. They get their schedule printed up and that's it or are on call in case they are needed to fill in.

Those who have been with the company a very long time not only get to chose the routes where they spend more time in the air in one consecutive period so they are then off more but also the class. First is easier than coach. One who flies SFO-SYD-SFO in one week may get the rest of the month off because he/she hit the max hours. For a US F/A going say ORD-LHR-ORD may then get five days off, do another run to LHR and be done for the period.

UAs long hauls are predominately older F/As, the majority are wonderful but unfortunately some, getting shafted with pay cuts, the merger and other things over the course of a career, start to take it's toll and they have become miserable. Come to think about it, the ones I've heard b*tch in the galley were the younger ones.

I may not be entirely right but it's fairly close. Also with the merger, UA's F/As and CSAs lost about a 7 years of seniority. Now they could have tiered it where those who worked 25 years got 7 deducted; 20 years, 5; 15 years 4, etc.

In other country's, there are no discrimination laws and airlines, take Singapore, Emirates, and many others, are age bias, weight bias, gender bias and more - it's awful. On SQ after the F/As turn a certain age, they are put in the back office operations or "retired".

However, if UA has a base in HKG or NRT, then they can go by the laws in that country. Again, correct me if I am wrong.

So now, when you see a senior crew on your long-haul flight, know you are in good hands because they have a lot more experience than most.

See, that wasn't so bad now was it?

Happy travels!


UG

TA

One thing that is pretty apparent, regardless of laws or rules, is that senior US flight attendants are not as polite or courteous as those of foreign carriers. Sure they have experience, but they lose something in enthusiasm and attitude.

Maybe it's partly cultural. Maybe US flight attendants don't put up with so much crap as foreign flight attendants. But I have a strong feeling that age and becoming jaded and dissatisfied with one's work after an excessive number of years service has something to do with it. People simply are prone to lose the enthusiasm and professionalism of the job.

I know these are general blanket statements. Sure there may be exceptions, but it's hard to not think of age as a primary driver of service quality, at least specifically when it comes to a difficult job like onboard service.

Not saying it's right that other countries age discriminate, please don't mistake me.

mkr

I like the older FAs in general. If one treats them with respect and courtesy, the vast majority, IME, will do the same in return.

They have been around and most have the good sense to not try to pull any BS, especially when they can recognize that the traveler is an experienced flyer. A younger FA may not be so insightful.

As others have said, seniority gives them the option fly to different places in the world where they would like to sightsee and explore on their off days. Seniority is likely the biggest reason one sees them more on international flights. Of course, everyone sometimes has a bad day, and I'm not defending those who let their bad days affect their customer service. There are also customers who may be having a bad day who sometimes take it out on the FAs, IMHO.

As far as the OP opinion that the older FAs seem more tired before the flights, I have not observed this as a trend, nor have I made it a priority to look for this. But I also am often tired before a flight when I am headed off to a work day. At least I have the opportunity to sleep inflight.

matsonjb

I rocked ANA TPAC once, that was something nice because they are young and energetic, but at the same time I have nothing to knock about the older UA FA. He did bring a valid point up but Doc needs to get his eyes checked because OP didn't say anything negative.

It does come down to laws and everything. My friend dated an ANA FA and she said that they get burned out and have high turnover because the unions are not as good and that the old FA realize that they are too old to start a new career and stay put.

lhrsfo

Of course, seniority is a form of age discrimination - so it's not the case that all age discrimination is banned in the US, just some types of it.

Also, it's not discriminatory to select staff who are most suited to the job (who might be old or might be young), or to select staff on a random basis. They don't do either of these things. The reason why UA has exclusively older FAs working international flights is pure and simply that their union contracts, and UA's own rules, demand it.

gengar

Well, I don't think younger US flight attendants are more polite or courteous either. It's really an amazing thing to fly some foreign carriers (esp. Asian carriers) in premium cabins and have the night and day difference. I actually feel like the service is consistent and that my business is valued.

I also don't think the merger helps. As a PMUA 1K who relocated to IAH pre-3/3, I noted on these forums that I found PMCO FAs in general to be friendlier but also less professional, which to me indicates a systemic problem possibly in the training area as regards courtesy and service quality. Whereas in the PMUA days - when I had a lot of rough and very volatile experiences on premium TPACs in the 2000s all from senior FAs so it was easy to pick out the problem - I feel like now the service is pretty bad across the board from FAs whether young or old.

I will edit to add - the only near-consistent exception is that I got good service from LHR-based FAs on my PMUA premium TATLs; of course I haven't gotten them in a while either since we don't get them out of IAH.


There's no federal protection of any classes involving weight, although IIRC a few cities/counties and one state do prohibit discrimination against "physical appearance".

Asuka

That sum's it up.

Nice seeing the F crew putting away on landing the choc's in their personal bags, I brought on board for the crew to enjoy during a 14 hour flight.

Hence they get no choc's, but I still drop pass the Y galley with Robert Timms Coffee Bags, with a box of Lindt mid flight, to make sure it gets there.

Daniel-SYD

Sigh... I've seen young crews, just not every often. I don't see why people have issue with it and I'm disappointed to see it being asked :-(

Truth is that they're all 26 but the air on those 747s really dries the skin out.