Jul 6, 2017, 11:17 am
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Trip in Vain -- an airline term for a trip which has been disrupted so much (such as weather delays or operational delays or ...) that the purpose of trip is no longer valid. Such as
-- you can not arrive in time for the event which was the purpose of the trip
-- the stay would be too short to make it worth the travel (a weekend trip, delay a day or two)
-- you can not arrive before the return is scheduled (such as a mileage run)
Typically remedies
-- The airline provides 100% refund with no penalties
-- If you have traveled part way, the airline returns you to the origin
-- If you decide to continue anyways to the destination, this would not be a trip in vain but there may be some compensations for the airline caused delays
-- Airlines will not cover the costs of non-refundable hotel, tour, ... deposits -- look for trip insurance or credit card protection for this
-- You may be able to request some inconvenience compensation (miles, voucher)
Mileage credit
-- You may get credit for the partial travel, if any
-- However, you will not get credit for the scheduled travel if you declare "Trip in vain" and request the refund. No Original Routing Credit (ORC)
related thread -- UA rules on original routing credit for "trip-in-vain"?
-- you can not arrive in time for the event which was the purpose of the trip
-- the stay would be too short to make it worth the travel (a weekend trip, delay a day or two)
-- you can not arrive before the return is scheduled (such as a mileage run)
Typically remedies
-- The airline provides 100% refund with no penalties
-- If you have traveled part way, the airline returns you to the origin
-- If you decide to continue anyways to the destination, this would not be a trip in vain but there may be some compensations for the airline caused delays
-- Airlines will not cover the costs of non-refundable hotel, tour, ... deposits -- look for trip insurance or credit card protection for this
-- You may be able to request some inconvenience compensation (miles, voucher)
Mileage credit
-- You may get credit for the partial travel, if any
-- However, you will not get credit for the scheduled travel if you declare "Trip in vain" and request the refund. No Original Routing Credit (ORC)
related thread -- UA rules on original routing credit for "trip-in-vain"?
Trip in vain / refund due to IRROPS -- Examples, Q&A, ... [Consolidated}
Oct 30, 2012, 2:34 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2009
Location: EWR
Posts: 884
Trip in vain / refund due to IRROPS -- Examples, Q&A, ... [Consolidated}
Tried finding an answer, but not much luck. Though it isn't easy searching through with just my phone.
How do refunds work on already commenced travel due to the IRROPS?
I had OSL-EWR on Sunday, which of course was fine. I was supposed to go EWR-IAD-GRU on Monday (Same reservation). Got rebooked to Wednesday, which is aready less than optimal for me. If for some reason the travel has to get pushed to Thursday, then I'd have no reason to continue onward at all.
If I tried to invoke a trip in vain and get a refund, would I only get the unflown portion refunded and still have to pay my way back to Europe as well? Or how does that all work?
How do refunds work on already commenced travel due to the IRROPS?
I had OSL-EWR on Sunday, which of course was fine. I was supposed to go EWR-IAD-GRU on Monday (Same reservation). Got rebooked to Wednesday, which is aready less than optimal for me. If for some reason the travel has to get pushed to Thursday, then I'd have no reason to continue onward at all.
If I tried to invoke a trip in vain and get a refund, would I only get the unflown portion refunded and still have to pay my way back to Europe as well? Or how does that all work?
Oct 30, 2012, 3:40 pm
#5
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,933
Tried finding an answer, but not much luck. Though it isn't easy searching through with just my phone.
How do refunds work on already commenced travel due to the IRROPS?
I had OSL-EWR on Sunday, which of course was fine. I was supposed to go EWR-IAD-GRU on Monday (Same reservation). Got rebooked to Wednesday, which is aready less than optimal for me. If for some reason the travel has to get pushed to Thursday, then I'd have no reason to continue onward at all.
If I tried to invoke a trip in vain and get a refund, would I only get the unflown portion refunded and still have to pay my way back to Europe as well? Or how does that all work?
How do refunds work on already commenced travel due to the IRROPS?
I had OSL-EWR on Sunday, which of course was fine. I was supposed to go EWR-IAD-GRU on Monday (Same reservation). Got rebooked to Wednesday, which is aready less than optimal for me. If for some reason the travel has to get pushed to Thursday, then I'd have no reason to continue onward at all.
If I tried to invoke a trip in vain and get a refund, would I only get the unflown portion refunded and still have to pay my way back to Europe as well? Or how does that all work?
Every person trying to get on a plane for the next week or so has a different story and yours is not unique, unfortunately. You really need to call though and not be influenced by what should be the normal circumstance for a partial refund, etc., because things are not normal, as of late! Good luck!!!^
Oct 30, 2012, 5:04 pm
#6
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Up In The Cloud
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA S, AA G; AS G; DL | SPG P50, M G, CC G, IHG P, HLT S | Hertz PC, Avis F
Posts: 682
In PMUA days, trip in vain = full refund + ecert
Not sure about current situation though. Good luck!
Not sure about current situation though. Good luck!
Tried finding an answer, but not much luck. Though it isn't easy searching through with just my phone.
How do refunds work on already commenced travel due to the IRROPS?
I had OSL-EWR on Sunday, which of course was fine. I was supposed to go EWR-IAD-GRU on Monday (Same reservation). Got rebooked to Wednesday, which is aready less than optimal for me. If for some reason the travel has to get pushed to Thursday, then I'd have no reason to continue onward at all.
If I tried to invoke a trip in vain and get a refund, would I only get the unflown portion refunded and still have to pay my way back to Europe as well? Or how does that all work?
How do refunds work on already commenced travel due to the IRROPS?
I had OSL-EWR on Sunday, which of course was fine. I was supposed to go EWR-IAD-GRU on Monday (Same reservation). Got rebooked to Wednesday, which is aready less than optimal for me. If for some reason the travel has to get pushed to Thursday, then I'd have no reason to continue onward at all.
If I tried to invoke a trip in vain and get a refund, would I only get the unflown portion refunded and still have to pay my way back to Europe as well? Or how does that all work?
Oct 30, 2012, 6:21 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2009
Location: EWR
Posts: 884
Getting through easily as a 1K, but the agents they have working unfortunately aren't too familiar with the whole process.
A seat opened up EWR-CLE-ORD-GRU and called to try getting that.. Without asking, they removed my GPUs from the return so they could reissue the ticket and now I am waitlisted only... Not thrilled
*edit* And they didn't leave my IAD-GRU segment in to protect it as I requested they do until the new flights were ticketed. Worst case I could have driven down to my brother who lives about an hour and 15 minutes from Dulles.
Now EWR-CLE is cancelled, and they can't get me my seat back from IAD unless I buy up to First.
A seat opened up EWR-CLE-ORD-GRU and called to try getting that.. Without asking, they removed my GPUs from the return so they could reissue the ticket and now I am waitlisted only... Not thrilled
*edit* And they didn't leave my IAD-GRU segment in to protect it as I requested they do until the new flights were ticketed. Worst case I could have driven down to my brother who lives about an hour and 15 minutes from Dulles.
Now EWR-CLE is cancelled, and they can't get me my seat back from IAD unless I buy up to First.
Last edited by Bigzamboni; Oct 30, 2012 at 6:39 pm
Dec 6, 2012, 2:05 am
#8
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 548
What happens if something goes wrong?
I live in sfo (surprise) and have an unusual flight plan. First I fly one way down to LA for meetings. Rather than return to SF, I need to go to NY, and I need to connect at SFO to get my upgrade rather than flying directly from LAX.
So, I have a trip that begins in LAX, has a two hour connection in SFO before going on to JFK on a red-eye, and then I return home after a 24-hour stay in NY. What happens if the flight from LAX is delayed so that I can't get my JFK flight at SFO? It's the last flight of evening and, if I miss it, the whole trip will be in vain. I will have travelled one leg, be in the midst of a connection, and yet be in my home city where I could simply leave the airport and go home whenever the mood strikes. How would this be handled with a fully refundable B fare? Would I be charged only for LAX-SFO or is there wacky customer penalty that is brought out to punish the passenger? (Incidentally, I've scheduled a two-hour layover at SFO to allow some breathing room so please spare any comments about how I'm working the system to orchestrate a missed connection; that's most definitely not the case.)
So, I have a trip that begins in LAX, has a two hour connection in SFO before going on to JFK on a red-eye, and then I return home after a 24-hour stay in NY. What happens if the flight from LAX is delayed so that I can't get my JFK flight at SFO? It's the last flight of evening and, if I miss it, the whole trip will be in vain. I will have travelled one leg, be in the midst of a connection, and yet be in my home city where I could simply leave the airport and go home whenever the mood strikes. How would this be handled with a fully refundable B fare? Would I be charged only for LAX-SFO or is there wacky customer penalty that is brought out to punish the passenger? (Incidentally, I've scheduled a two-hour layover at SFO to allow some breathing room so please spare any comments about how I'm working the system to orchestrate a missed connection; that's most definitely not the case.)
Last edited by sfolawyer; Dec 6, 2012 at 8:17 am
Dec 6, 2012, 2:48 am
#9
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,284
So, I have a trip that begins in LAX, has a two hour connection in SFO before going on to JFK on a red-eye, and then I return home after a 24-hour stay in NY. What happens if the flight from LAX is delayed so that I can't get my JFK flight at SFO? It's the last flight of evening and, if I miss it, the whole trip will be in vain.
Dec 6, 2012, 8:15 am
#10
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 548
and, if I miss it, it would not work to take the first flight in the morning because the visit is only for 24 hous and I need to return as scheduled.
Dec 6, 2012, 8:45 am
#11
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,878
While still at LAX, if you know that your delayed LAX-SFO flight will cause you to misconx at SFO for your SFO-JFK redeye, why not ask one of the agents at LAX to put you on the LAX-JFK redeye? Your upgrade may not hold but you'll arrive at JFK first thing in the morning (and then you can submit for original routing credit after your trip)
Dec 6, 2012, 9:42 am
#12
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,284
That's why I was wondering if this was a broken fare issue, or something.
Dec 6, 2012, 1:10 pm
#13
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: MileagePlus
Posts: 412
The short answer is you are in title to a involuntary refund of the un-flown portion of your ticket due to a schedule irregularity per the CoC Rule 24(E)(2)(b)
and Rule 27(A)
In the event a Passenger misses an onward connecting flight on which space is reserved because the Delivering Carrier did not operate its flight due to a Schedule Irregularity or Change in Schedule, the Delivering Carrier is responsible to arrange for carriage of Passenger or to make a refund
Jan 29, 2013, 4:14 pm
#14
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP MM, HHonors Lifetime Diamond, Marriott Lifetime Ti, UA Silver
Posts: 5,036
Trip in Vain rules if I don't fly
I have a personal trip coming up Thursday morning that isn't really essential. It looks like WX is going to slam the PHL area Wednesday night and this usually results in lots of delays and cancellations the following morning.
Since I'd rather not fly and will likely cancel the trip anyway due to a work conflict what are my rights if there are significant weather delays? Do I have to go to the airport to claim a trip in vain?
Since I'd rather not fly and will likely cancel the trip anyway due to a work conflict what are my rights if there are significant weather delays? Do I have to go to the airport to claim a trip in vain?
Feb 1, 2013, 8:58 pm
#15
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ORF, RIC
Programs: UA LT 1K, 3 MM; Marriott Titanium; IHG Platinum
Posts: 6,958
How about two PNRs?
Last leg of the first PNR: CLE-MKE was cancelled due to weather; MKE-CLE, the first leg of second PNR was also cancelled due to weather. I decided to cut off these two legs so that I would not miss the remaining segments of the second PNR. Is there any chance to get mileage credits from UA for these two cancelled segments? Many thanks.