Consolidated Involuntary Denied Boarding--based on fare/status/check-in time/what?
Sep 23, 2012, 11:24 pm
#1
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Consolidated Involuntary Denied Boarding--based on fare/status/check-in time/what?
Hi everyone,
Long time lurker, first time poster.
Colleagues of mine were denied boarding involuntarily last month on their flight from EWR to Tampa and were given a round number for their IDB ($650.00) and were delayed 6 hours plus a cab ride from Orlando to Tampa.
Their one way fare was $225. According to the United CoC, I thought their IDB amount was too low as the delay was more than 2 hours, so the compensation should have been 400% of $225 or $900.
I called into the 1K line on their behalf and they said it would require additional research.
I just got a note back from an "Executive Specialist" in Houston who indicated their compensation is paid out on the lowest available fare in the market, not the fare paid by the IDB customer.
Has anyone experienced this in the past? Something doesn't feel right.
Thanks,
Andrew
Long time lurker, first time poster.
Colleagues of mine were denied boarding involuntarily last month on their flight from EWR to Tampa and were given a round number for their IDB ($650.00) and were delayed 6 hours plus a cab ride from Orlando to Tampa.
Their one way fare was $225. According to the United CoC, I thought their IDB amount was too low as the delay was more than 2 hours, so the compensation should have been 400% of $225 or $900.
I called into the 1K line on their behalf and they said it would require additional research.
I just got a note back from an "Executive Specialist" in Houston who indicated their compensation is paid out on the lowest available fare in the market, not the fare paid by the IDB customer.
Has anyone experienced this in the past? Something doesn't feel right.
Thanks,
Andrew
Sep 23, 2012, 11:26 pm
#2
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,393
Hi everyone,
Long time lurker, first time poster.
Colleagues of mine were denied boarding involuntarily last month on their flight from EWR to Tampa and were given a round number for their IDB ($650.00) and were delayed 6 hours plus a cab ride from Orlando to Tampa.
Their one way fare was $225. According to the United CoC, I thought their IDB amount was too low as the delay was more than 2 hours, so the compensation should have been 400% of $225 or $900.
I called into the 1K line on their behalf and they said it would require additional research.
I just got a note back from an "Executive Specialist" in Houston who indicated their compensation is paid out on the lowest available fare in the market, not the fare paid by the IDB customer.
Has anyone experienced this in the past? Something doesn't feel right.
Thanks,
Andrew
Long time lurker, first time poster.
Colleagues of mine were denied boarding involuntarily last month on their flight from EWR to Tampa and were given a round number for their IDB ($650.00) and were delayed 6 hours plus a cab ride from Orlando to Tampa.
Their one way fare was $225. According to the United CoC, I thought their IDB amount was too low as the delay was more than 2 hours, so the compensation should have been 400% of $225 or $900.
I called into the 1K line on their behalf and they said it would require additional research.
I just got a note back from an "Executive Specialist" in Houston who indicated their compensation is paid out on the lowest available fare in the market, not the fare paid by the IDB customer.
Has anyone experienced this in the past? Something doesn't feel right.
Thanks,
Andrew
DOT Regulations:
* If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $650 maximum.
Sep 23, 2012, 11:30 pm
#4
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But they got in 6 hours late.
Something isn't right here. The pax is definitely due 400% of the one way fare, up to $1300. That's what THEY paid, unless it's a mileage ticket. Then it's by the lowest available fare.
OP, were they just flying EWR-TPA? Or were they connecting in EWR?
One way ticket or round trip? Fare basis calculation is quite complicated if you're throwing in connections, or the 2nd half of a round trip.
Something isn't right here. The pax is definitely due 400% of the one way fare, up to $1300. That's what THEY paid, unless it's a mileage ticket. Then it's by the lowest available fare.
OP, were they just flying EWR-TPA? Or were they connecting in EWR?
One way ticket or round trip? Fare basis calculation is quite complicated if you're throwing in connections, or the 2nd half of a round trip.
Sep 23, 2012, 11:31 pm
#5
Moderator: United Airlines
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* If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1300 maximum).
Sep 23, 2012, 11:31 pm
#6
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Sep 23, 2012, 11:38 pm
#8
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Also, are you sure it was actually treated as an IDB? Sometimes, in a potential IDB situation, passengers will be made an offer that they might feel is fair or might reluctantly accept if their main priority at the moment is getting to their destination, and where part of the deal is that the passenger agrees to voluntarily give up their original seat. That is, they are in effect becoming VDB volunteers even if they don't know it. Once they sign the paperwork indicating that they voluntarily gave up their seat in return for X compensation, that's the end of it. It can be difficult to go back and make a claim that it was really IDB, because the situation immediately degrades into a "he said, she said" situation.
I'm not saying that's what happened here, but it's been known to happen.
I'm not saying that's what happened here, but it's been known to happen.
Sep 23, 2012, 11:41 pm
#9
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No, it was definitely IDB. They were in a party of 3 and 2 got left behind. 6 extra hours in Newark plus a 3 hour cab ride from Orlando to Tampa was not a fun day for them. 
PS: they got checks on the spot; not a UA voucher. I highly doubt UA would give checks to a VDB. Maybe I should just move on...just hate to see friends/colleagues who don't fly as often be taken advantage of.
PWMramper: they originated in Newark as the first leg of a circle trip (3 one way fares constructed together on 3 different days of travel).
ie: EWR-TPA (stop) TPA-XYZ (stop) XYZ-EWR
PS: they got checks on the spot; not a UA voucher. I highly doubt UA would give checks to a VDB. Maybe I should just move on...just hate to see friends/colleagues who don't fly as often be taken advantage of.
PWMramper: they originated in Newark as the first leg of a circle trip (3 one way fares constructed together on 3 different days of travel).
ie: EWR-TPA (stop) TPA-XYZ (stop) XYZ-EWR
Last edited by iluv2fly; Sep 23, 2012 at 11:58 pm Reason: merge
Sep 23, 2012, 11:44 pm
#10
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Based on the facts you have presented (delayed six hours, one way fare of $225), they are owed $900.
File a complaint with the DoT via their Web form: http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/CP_AirlineService.htm.
All you need to say is something like:
"Colleagues of mine flew on United EWR-TPA and were involuntarily denied boarding. Their e-ticket numbers were 016xxxx… and 016yyyy…. The IDB caused an arrival-time delay of six hours. Their one-way fare was $225.
United compensated them only $600, which is less than the DoT mandated four times the one-way fare (4 x $225 = $900).
When I contacted United to ask them to explain the discrepancy, they said that they have chosen to base IDB compensation on the lowest one-way fare available in the market, not the one-way fare price actually paid by the IDB'd passengers.
This interpretation of the DoT rules is novel and is not documented at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publi...tm#overbooking. Can you please investigate and
(1) confirm in writing that United has chosen this "lowest one-way fare, not actual fare paid" interpretation and
(2) confirm in writing that this interpretation complies with the DoT's rules?
"
You will probably get a phone call from Houston within a week saying "sorry, you're not the passenger who was IDB'd, so we are unable to discuss the scenario with you directly … however, we believe we did the right thing." This will, however, give you a chance to get them to answer (1).
File a complaint with the DoT via their Web form: http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/CP_AirlineService.htm.
All you need to say is something like:
"Colleagues of mine flew on United EWR-TPA and were involuntarily denied boarding. Their e-ticket numbers were 016xxxx… and 016yyyy…. The IDB caused an arrival-time delay of six hours. Their one-way fare was $225.
United compensated them only $600, which is less than the DoT mandated four times the one-way fare (4 x $225 = $900).
When I contacted United to ask them to explain the discrepancy, they said that they have chosen to base IDB compensation on the lowest one-way fare available in the market, not the one-way fare price actually paid by the IDB'd passengers.
This interpretation of the DoT rules is novel and is not documented at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publi...tm#overbooking. Can you please investigate and
(1) confirm in writing that United has chosen this "lowest one-way fare, not actual fare paid" interpretation and
(2) confirm in writing that this interpretation complies with the DoT's rules?
"
You will probably get a phone call from Houston within a week saying "sorry, you're not the passenger who was IDB'd, so we are unable to discuss the scenario with you directly … however, we believe we did the right thing." This will, however, give you a chance to get them to answer (1).
Sep 23, 2012, 11:47 pm
#11
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Sep 23, 2012, 11:54 pm
#12
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Did UA tell you what the fare was they considered paid for the EWR-TPA segment? If it was 400% of that then UA calculated their fare as ~$161. $162.50x4 = $650.
-RM
Sep 24, 2012, 12:00 am
#13
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If you had 3 one ways in the PNR and the ticket cost $750, that doesn't mean each individual segment is $250.
It usually takes our help desk 3 or 4 minutes to calculate what the individual fare basis for the flight IDB'd is, and then multiplying that by 4 to get the amount.
I'm no expert in fare basis calculations, along with removing certain taxes and frees from the fare. It always, always requires a call to the helpd desk.
Sep 24, 2012, 12:46 am
#14
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$162.50 is well above (over 2x) of the lowest base OW fare EWR-TPA
[KVS Availability Tool 7.0.5/Diamond - Galileo: Fares/PSH/RU]
[KVS Availability Tool 7.0.5/Diamond - Galileo: Fares/PSH/RU]
Code:
EWR New York Newark Liberty Intl NJ US [KEWR]
TPA Tampa Intl FL US [KTPA]
O/W 25 Sep 2012 | All
Carrier From To Fare Cur AdvanceP Min Max Fare Basis | Travel Period
--------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- --- --------------------------
UA EWR TPA 68 USD 21 Days GA21HS 01 Sep-30 Sep
UA EWR TPA 84 USD 21 Days GA21HS 04 Sep-20 Dec
UA EWR TPA 87 USD 21 Days GAU21HN 04 Sep-20 Dec
UA EWR TPA 100 USD 14 Days KAU14HS 01 Sep-30 Sep
UA EWR TPA 101 USD 21 Days GA21HN 07 May-
UA EWR TPA 110 USD 21 Days GA21HN 07 May-
UA EWR TPA 117 USD 14 Days KA14HS 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 119 USD 21 Days KA21HN 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 127 USD 14 Days KAU14HN 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 133 USD 14 Days LA14HN 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 147 USD 7 Days LA7HN 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 164 USD 7 Days TA7HN 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 228 USD 7 Days WA7HN 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 265 USD 7 Days VA7HN 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 304 USD *** HA0HN 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 325 USD 14 Days V2UP14N3 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 352 USD *** UA0HN 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 416 USD *** EA0HN 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 416 USD 7 Days Q2UP7Y3 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 487 USD *** MA0HY 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 503 USD *** MA0FY 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 508 USD *** H2UPY3 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 645 USD *** BA0FY 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 772 USD *** YUA 01 Sep-31 Oct
UA EWR TPA 862 USD *** FUA 01 Sep-31 Oct
Sep 24, 2012, 2:22 am
#15
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My suggestion is simple.
It is IDB and UA acknowledged the compensation is 400%. So the only argument is the fare.
DOT says it is the fare you paid. So it is a ticket with multi-segment (like xxx-EWR-TPA) or it is straightly a EWR-TPA ticket?
I think this is the issue OP has to focus now.
It is IDB and UA acknowledged the compensation is 400%. So the only argument is the fare.
DOT says it is the fare you paid. So it is a ticket with multi-segment (like xxx-EWR-TPA) or it is straightly a EWR-TPA ticket?
I think this is the issue OP has to focus now.
