Best Practices for Filing EU 261 Claims Against United? {Archive}
Dec 21, 2018, 11:23 am
#1216
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,531
United is not a member of an ADR so you can complain to CAA directly (since the flight departed the UK). If they agree with you, they will contact the airline on your behalf but have no enforcement authority.
Our initial assessment of your complaint will take about one week if we have received all of the correct supporting documents from you. If your complaint is within our scope, we will then ask the airline or airport to reassess it in light of the relevant legislation and guidelines.
We should receive a response from the airline or airport within four weeks, although this may vary, and if we challenge the airport or airline for further information it can take another two weeks.
Once we have received all the information we require it will take us five weeks to contact you with a final assessment of your situation. For a visual representation of this process, see our process diagram.
If you are dissatisfied with the opinion the CAA has provided you can take legal action against the airline or airport, but you cannot appeal against the CAA’s decision.
We should receive a response from the airline or airport within four weeks, although this may vary, and if we challenge the airport or airline for further information it can take another two weeks.
Once we have received all the information we require it will take us five weeks to contact you with a final assessment of your situation. For a visual representation of this process, see our process diagram.
If you are dissatisfied with the opinion the CAA has provided you can take legal action against the airline or airport, but you cannot appeal against the CAA’s decision.
Dec 21, 2018, 12:33 pm
#1217
Join Date: Mar 2009
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My sense is that none of the U.S. carriers have acknowledged Wegener yet. At least, I’ve not seen anyone post about a successful claim against a U.S. carrier under the Wegener provision.
Dec 21, 2018, 12:41 pm
#1218
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,531
Also note you can initiate a small claim in British court remotely over the internet, cost is about GBP 60. If UA's legal department doesn't respond or agrees with you, no need to show up in person for a hearing. Kind of a gamble, I guess, with a roughly 10x payoff if you win. I've never done this, just reading on the internet...
Dec 22, 2018, 4:10 am
#1219
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1. Probably nothing. I think it is nearly impossible to find statistically relevant evidence that ticket prices have increased as a result of EC261 (to many other factors)
2. The absence of this legislation would cause airlines to voluntarily increase their delays? Is this your hypothesis?
Dec 22, 2018, 8:40 am
#1220
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
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Why would you say this? Apart from Brexit being a huge unknown at the moment, there is more reason to believe these things will stay in place, at least initially.
1. Probably nothing. I think it is nearly impossible to find statistically relevant evidence that ticket prices have increased as a result of EC261 (to many other factors)
2. The absence of this legislation would cause airlines to voluntarily increase their delays? Is this your hypothesis?
if there is no similar rule then one less cost for airlines flying out of the UK.
I have a very high delay and canx rate on UA and had a number of claims with UA but nothing out of the UK for the past year or so - my delay/canx rate FROM the UK is very low these days. Elsewhere I still experience a high rate of UA delays/canx. Obviously YMMV.
Dec 22, 2018, 10:56 am
#1221
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,531
Many countries not in the EU follow EC261 voluntarily to provide a uniform consumer landscape (e.g. Switzerland).
It's way too early to tell the fate of consumer flight protections in the context of Brexit. It all depends on the exit agreement, and at the moment there is no exit agreement.
If there is truly a no-deal hard Brexit, then yes I guess initially EC261 would not apply. But that's small potatoes compared to the other chaos that will be going on, and that other chaos will affect ticket prices way more than than EC261 silently falling away.
It's way too early to tell the fate of consumer flight protections in the context of Brexit. It all depends on the exit agreement, and at the moment there is no exit agreement.
If there is truly a no-deal hard Brexit, then yes I guess initially EC261 would not apply. But that's small potatoes compared to the other chaos that will be going on, and that other chaos will affect ticket prices way more than than EC261 silently falling away.
Dec 22, 2018, 1:31 pm
#1222
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Dec 22, 2018, 2:55 pm
#1223
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The UK is leaving the EU. Is there a UK rule similar to the EU261 rule?
if there is no similar rule then one less cost for airlines flying out of the UK.
I have a very high delay and canx rate on UA and had a number of claims with UA but nothing out of the UK for the past year or so - my delay/canx rate FROM the UK is very low these days. Elsewhere I still experience a high rate of UA delays/canx. Obviously YMMV.
if there is no similar rule then one less cost for airlines flying out of the UK.
I have a very high delay and canx rate on UA and had a number of claims with UA but nothing out of the UK for the past year or so - my delay/canx rate FROM the UK is very low these days. Elsewhere I still experience a high rate of UA delays/canx. Obviously YMMV.
Dec 22, 2018, 3:37 pm
#1224
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
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Posts: 3,217
Maybe. Maybe not. These days it's very difficult to say what may happen (and this is coming from someone who is reasonably close to the coal face in terms of direct implications.) This is going OT, but if the UK leaves/crashes out of the UK then in the immediate aftermath all laws stay on the book as they are. EC261 is far down the list of things to amend. But ticket prices and EC261 are so far removed, that I wouldn't fret too much about this or delays. Your problems travelling to and from the UK will be much more memorable for their lengthy border delays.
I did not realize EC261 was part of UK law, I thought being part of the EU required the UK to follow EU rules. I for one will be happy if the UK continues to require non-EU airlines pay out for delays and canx after Brexit.
Dec 23, 2018, 1:23 am
#1225
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Huh? I currently use the eGates and will continue from January 1, 2019 - EU folks may have a longer queue after Brexit but they will be able to pay for Border Force and also use the eGates...
I did not realize EC261 was part of UK law, I thought being part of the EU required the UK to follow EU rules. I for one will be happy if the UK continues to require non-EU airlines pay out for delays and canx after Brexit.
I did not realize EC261 was part of UK law, I thought being part of the EU required the UK to follow EU rules. I for one will be happy if the UK continues to require non-EU airlines pay out for delays and canx after Brexit.
Dec 23, 2018, 1:44 am
#1226
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Huh? I currently use the eGates and will continue from January 1, 2019 - EU folks may have a longer queue after Brexit but they will be able to pay for Border Force and also use the eGates...
I did not realize EC261 was part of UK law, I thought being part of the EU required the UK to follow EU rules. I for one will be happy if the UK continues to require non-EU airlines pay out for delays and canx after Brexit.
I did not realize EC261 was part of UK law, I thought being part of the EU required the UK to follow EU rules. I for one will be happy if the UK continues to require non-EU airlines pay out for delays and canx after Brexit.
Dec 23, 2018, 1:53 am
#1227
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Topic Reminder
This extended discussion of "Brexit" impact on flight operations and delay compensation is getting a bit too far off-topic for a UA thread on EU261. At some point there may be changes on UA compensation for flight delays from the UK but what is pure speculation at this point and that discussion probably does not belong in the UA forum. So for now, let's focus this thread on EU261 issues involving UA flights.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
This extended discussion of "Brexit" impact on flight operations and delay compensation is getting a bit too far off-topic for a UA thread on EU261. At some point there may be changes on UA compensation for flight delays from the UK but what is pure speculation at this point and that discussion probably does not belong in the UA forum. So for now, let's focus this thread on EU261 issues involving UA flights.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Jan 11, 2019, 10:47 am
#1228
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Posts: 77
I'm on 016 United ticket, but the whole flight is operated by Lufthansa. Should I file the EC with Lufthansa or United?
Feb 8, 2019, 4:19 pm
#1230
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So, bringing this over to a more appropriate thread.
The story:
Was on UA949 yesterday (6 Feb), LHR-SFO, which at check-in was LHR-SFO, then by the time I had walked to the lounge at T2 (10 mins) the desk person said "ah, you are now going via Bangor, Maine, as one of the pilots called in sick so 2 pilots are only allowed to fly for up to 7 hours (I think that is what she said) so you will pick up a new crew in Bangor". Long story short we we were scheduled to get to SFO at 1230pm, got there at 423pm, just in time for the evening commute. I have not looked at the compensation that they have offered as yet.
So, I contacted them about the EC261 and they say, predictably, that as a crew member reported ill before departure "the issue was outside of United’s control". Really? Inconvenient and annoying maybe, but it is something that can be controlled. Round 1.
Round 2 started and was United's response was that "We have again reviewed your request for cash compensation and found that we complied with all the applicable regulations at the time of your flight."
Pushed back quoting one case where it has been ruled that crew sickness is not an extraordinary circumstance.
Round 3 meant we moved to the bizarre:
"We feel we have fully responded to your concerns and consider this matter closed. Should you have any other travel-related issues, please contact us again.
This letter represents our final consideration of your complaint. CEDR Services Limited is approved by the Civil Aviation Authority to provide dispute resolution services and an independent view of your complaint under the Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015. The web address of CEDR Services Limited is www.cedr.com.
United is not signed up to the services of CEDR Services Limited and is therefore not willing to submit itself to its ADR procedure.
You can log your complaint with CAA’s Passenger Advice and Complaints Team (PACT) by completing the online complaint form via the CAA website: www.caa.co.uk/passengercomplaints. Under the subtitle ‘How the CAA can Help’ you will need to click on the link ‘Refer your complaint to us’. You can then access the CAA’s consumer portal where you can submit your complaint to PACT."
I am being referred to something by United that United is not signed up to. Very amusing.
Anyway, it is almost MCOL time.
The story:
Was on UA949 yesterday (6 Feb), LHR-SFO, which at check-in was LHR-SFO, then by the time I had walked to the lounge at T2 (10 mins) the desk person said "ah, you are now going via Bangor, Maine, as one of the pilots called in sick so 2 pilots are only allowed to fly for up to 7 hours (I think that is what she said) so you will pick up a new crew in Bangor". Long story short we we were scheduled to get to SFO at 1230pm, got there at 423pm, just in time for the evening commute. I have not looked at the compensation that they have offered as yet.
So, I contacted them about the EC261 and they say, predictably, that as a crew member reported ill before departure "the issue was outside of United’s control". Really? Inconvenient and annoying maybe, but it is something that can be controlled. Round 1.
Round 2 started and was United's response was that "We have again reviewed your request for cash compensation and found that we complied with all the applicable regulations at the time of your flight."
Pushed back quoting one case where it has been ruled that crew sickness is not an extraordinary circumstance.
Round 3 meant we moved to the bizarre:
"We feel we have fully responded to your concerns and consider this matter closed. Should you have any other travel-related issues, please contact us again.
This letter represents our final consideration of your complaint. CEDR Services Limited is approved by the Civil Aviation Authority to provide dispute resolution services and an independent view of your complaint under the Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015. The web address of CEDR Services Limited is www.cedr.com.
United is not signed up to the services of CEDR Services Limited and is therefore not willing to submit itself to its ADR procedure.
You can log your complaint with CAA’s Passenger Advice and Complaints Team (PACT) by completing the online complaint form via the CAA website: www.caa.co.uk/passengercomplaints. Under the subtitle ‘How the CAA can Help’ you will need to click on the link ‘Refer your complaint to us’. You can then access the CAA’s consumer portal where you can submit your complaint to PACT."
I am being referred to something by United that United is not signed up to. Very amusing.
Anyway, it is almost MCOL time.