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Best Practices for Filing EU 261 Claims Against United?

Best Practices for Filing EU 261 Claims Against United?

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Old Nov 11, 19, 4:14 am   -   Wikipost
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This information is created according to Regulation EC 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of the European Union.

Link to Regulation: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.ht...C_1&format=PDF

It applies to flights departing from an airport in the EU (and Norway) and flights operated by an EU-based air carrier departing from an airport in a third country to an airport in the EU.

If you have booked several connecting flights as one single journey Ė that means within the same booking Ė the distance is from the start to the last destination indicated on your ticket where the delay or cancellation has time-related consequences for you. If you are travelling on several separate tickets, which have been booked individually, these rules apply only up until the final destination of each ticket.

All of the following conditions must apply to the situations referred to below:
  • <Airline> must be the operating carrier of the flight.
  • You must have a confirmed reservation on a flight we operate.
  • You must be fully checked-in at the time indicated or, if no time is indicated, not later than 45 minutes before the time of departure.
  • You must be travelling on a fare available directly or indirectly to the public, or on a ticket issued under a frequent flyer program.
1. In the event of a delay as listed below...
a) If the flight is delayed for two hours or more in the case or flights of 1,500 kilometers or less.

b) If the flight is delayed for three hours or more in the case of intra-EU flights of more than 1,500 kilometers.

c) If the flight is delayed for three hours or more in the case of other flights between 1,500 and 3,500 kilometers.

d) If the flight is delayed for four hours or more in the case of all flights not falling under a), b) and c).

...then operating carrier must provide the following assistance free of charge:

Meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time

Two telephone calls or e-mails

Hotel accommodation and transport between the airport and place of accommodation (These are offered if you must wait at least one night after the scheduled time of departure and are subject to local availability.)

Reimbursement of tickets (If the delay is at least five hours and you decide not to travel, reimbursement within seven days of the cost of your ticket for the part or parts of the journey not made. One is also reimbursed for the part or parts of your journey already made that no longer serve any purpose in relation to your original travel plan. When relevant, the airline can also provide reimbursement for a return flight to the first point of departure at the earliest opportunity.)

Compensation in case of delays of 3 hours or more (see section below)
2. In the event of a cancelled flight you can choose the following:
Canceling the journey and receiving reimbursement for tickets (The operating carrier must provide reimbursement within seven days of the full cost of the ticket for the part or parts of the journey not made. They must also reimburse you for the part or parts of your journey already made that no longer serve any purpose in relation to your original travel plan. When relevant, they can also provide reimbursement for a return flight to the first point of departure at the earliest opportunity.)

Re-routed, under comparable transport conditions, to your final destination (The operating carrier can offer to reroute to your final destination at the earliest opportunity or at a later date that suits you, depending on seat availability.)

Meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time

Two telephone calls or e-mails

Hotel accommodation and transport between the airport and place of accommodation (These are offered if you must wait at least one night after the scheduled time of departure and are subject to local availability.)

Compensation in case of cancellations and delays of 3 hours or more:
  • Ä250* for all flights less than 1,500km
  • Ä400* for all intra-EU flights more than 1,500km
  • Ä400* for all other flights between 1,500 and 3,500km
  • Ä600* for all flights not falling under the conditions as listed above

*The compensation described above is sometimes reduced by Ĺ in court if the following conditions are met:
  • If you arrive within two (2) hours after your original arrival time for flights 1,500km or less then Ä125.is due
  • If you arrive within three (3) hours after your original arrival time for intra-EU flights greater than 1,500km then Ä200 is due.
  • If you arrive within three (3) hours after your original arrival time for all other flights between 1,500km - 3,500km then Ä200 is due.
  • If you arrive within four (4) hours after your original arrival time for all other flights not listed above then Ä300 is due.
3. You are not entitled to compensation in the following situations:
If the cancellation or delay of 3 hours or more is caused by extraordinary circumstances such as:
  • extraordinary meteorological conditions
  • security risks
  • strikes affecting operations
  • political instability
ONLY if the airline can prove in court that there was no way to prevent the delay - which is very hard to do for the airline.
Delays of the INCOMING aircraft for ANY reason NEVER qualify as an exemption for compensation as per EU court rulings.

If you are informed of the cancellation at least 14 days before the time of departure

If you are informed of the cancellation between 7 and 14 days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing to your final destination, allowing you to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled time of departure and to reach your final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival.

If you are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing to your final destination, allowing you to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach your final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.

Frequently Asked Questions
If I receive & take UA's "standard" delay compensation -- a choice of miles or ETC -- does this make me ineligible for EU261 compensation?

Generally no

Archive: Best Practices for Filing EU 261 Claims Against United? {Archive}
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Old Aug 17, 19, 11:17 am
  #631  
 
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Seems to me this thread is taking on a very legal approach. Iíve always done well with an honest and direct approach by finding a resolution that way. Do you think the fellow Flyertalkers whom suffered a delay can weed through all this technical jargon. I think the thread is steering in a way away from helping others by scaring them away. I know the intention is well but from looking from the outside Iím not really seeing it that way.


To keep to the threads topic. My experience with United and EC 261 was dealt with swiftly and professionally. I decided to take a $900 USDECERT Instead of the $600Ä
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Old Aug 17, 19, 3:18 pm
  #632  
 
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Originally Posted by Flying Machine View Post
Seems to me this thread is taking on a very legal approach. Iíve always done well with an honest and direct approach by finding a resolution that way. Do you think the fellow Flyertalkers whom suffered a delay can weed through all this technical jargon. I think the thread is steering in a way away from helping others by scaring them away. I know the intention is well but from looking from the outside Iím not really seeing it that way.


To keep to the threads topic. My experience with United and EC 261 was dealt with swiftly and professionally. I decided to take a $900 USDECERT Instead of the $600Ä
I too have been successful with my claims and taken both checks and ETCs.

I think the thread is showing that United is attempting to not pay some claims.

I was astounded for the pax in July (2019) on the CDG-IAD flight who was denied as I was checked in on the same flight and saw the arriving flight was delayed so proactively did a SDC by calling the 1K desk. That was an example where that pax should have received the compensation and when denied by United for "legal" reasons needed to know options.

Yes, this thread should be assisting folks looking to understand when and how to make a claim, but just as importantly understand what to do when United denied a valid claim including the information/name of the relevant court case. FT is very much about sharing our knowledge, experience and expertise.
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Last edited by Aussienarelle; Aug 17, 19 at 3:33 pm
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Old Aug 17, 19, 4:03 pm
  #633  
 
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Do you think the status of the person making the request makes a difference? I'm Gold this year, not 1K; daughter has no status at the moment. Would it make the smallest difference if I sent in a follow up on her behalf?
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Old Aug 17, 19, 4:17 pm
  #634  
 
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Originally Posted by mmthomps View Post
Do you think the status of the person making the request makes a difference? I'm Gold this year, not 1K; daughter has no status at the moment. Would it make the smallest difference if I sent in a follow up on her behalf?
I donít think status really means anything for EC 261 compensation, however the courtesy ECERTD that they tend to offer in addition to the EC 261 is aligned to ones status. Go ahead and see what you can get I see no harm. In the end, I donít think you could do anything but help her
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Old Aug 18, 19, 11:11 pm
  #635  
 
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EC 261 Eligible?

Recently returned from Europe FRA-EWR-RIC (same itinerary, booked through UA). Both flights were delayed, so out of curiosity I plugged the info into the AirHelp app. To my surprise, AirHelp says I'm entitled to 600 Euro.

Flight details:

UA 961 FRA-EWR

Scheduled departure: 11:20 am / Actual departure: 12:24 pm
Scheduled arrival: 1:50 pm / Actual arrival: 3:15 pm

Reason for delay: delayed incoming aircraft

UA 4994 EWR-RIC

Scheduled departure: 5:00 pm / Actual departure: 6:59 pm
Scheduled arrival: 6:44 pm / Actual arrival: 9:16 pm

Reason for delay: delayed incoming aircraft, and then maintenance issue

I'm confused as to why the app is saying EC 261 comp is due, as everything I've read here suggests delays to final destination under 3 hours are not eligible. Have there been recent changes to the regulation? Is the app not reliable?

I received some very helpful responses when I posted about issues with the outbound flight, so I'm hoping that once again those with more knowledge / experience on this subject can enlighten me. I'd rather not look like an arse by writing UA to request EC 261 comp if not eligible.

TIA!
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Old Aug 19, 19, 2:01 am
  #636  
 
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Originally Posted by fasttrak7 View Post
Recently returned from Europe FRA-EWR-RIC (same itinerary, booked through UA). Both flights were delayed, so out of curiosity I plugged the info into the AirHelp app. To my surprise, AirHelp says I'm entitled to 600 Euro.

Flight details:

UA 961 FRA-EWR

Scheduled departure: 11:20 am / Actual departure: 12:24 pm
Scheduled arrival: 1:50 pm / Actual arrival: 3:15 pm

Reason for delay: delayed incoming aircraft

UA 4994 EWR-RIC

Scheduled departure: 5:00 pm / Actual departure: 6:59 pm
Scheduled arrival: 6:44 pm / Actual arrival: 9:16 pm

Reason for delay: delayed incoming aircraft, and then maintenance issue

I'm confused as to why the app is saying EC 261 comp is due, as everything I've read here suggests delays to final destination under 3 hours are not eligible. Have there been recent changes to the regulation? Is the app not reliable?

I received some very helpful responses when I posted about issues with the outbound flight, so I'm hoping that once again those with more knowledge / experience on this subject can enlighten me. I'd rather not look like an arse by writing UA to request EC 261 comp if not eligible.

TIA!
I don't know the app but do you think somehow it has confused your second leg as being on an EU carrier or within the EU.

My thinking would be in line with yours but there was one claim I made that UA paid me Euro 300 instead of Euro 600 as the time delay was shorter. Did not really follow the logic and just took the money.

You could always make a claim and see what they say - a couple of hundred euros is better than nothing.
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Old Aug 19, 19, 7:42 am
  #637  
 
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Originally Posted by Aussienarelle View Post
I don't know the app but do you think somehow it has confused your second leg as being on an EU carrier or within the EU.
Curious, so I did a test: I first put in the entire itinerary, same result: still says eligible. Then entered just the FRA-EWR leg: eligible. Finally entered just the EWR-RIC leg: not eligible. So the app correctly recognized that the second leg was non-EU. It seems to think the TATL leg alone is eligible.
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Old Aug 19, 19, 1:10 pm
  #638  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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This is what my daughter got back from United, regarding her request (ATH-EWR, 2:52 late; EWR-LAX, next day, so ultimately 12 hours late).


I understand that the delay was, at best, very frustrating and truly regret you were disappointed. Please let me explain why cash compensation is not applicable under European Regulation EC261/2004. Since Greece is not a country that looks at a delay under 3 hours that caused you to miss your connection, compensation according to the EU Regulation does not apply.

Please know that our legal department carefully reviews each of these matters with our system and technical operations groups to ensure we are in full compliance with the appropriate legal standards. Although the cause of the irregularity was extraordinary and unable to be avoided, we did what we could to minimize it, and have nothing further to advise at this point.
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Old Aug 19, 19, 1:18 pm
  #639  
 
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It's a European Union regulation interpreted by the European Court of Justice. Saying that it doesn't apply in EU-member Greece is a pretty jerk move.
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Old Aug 19, 19, 1:32 pm
  #640  
 
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Originally Posted by mmthomps View Post
This is what my daughter got back from United, regarding her request (ATH-EWR, 2:52 late; EWR-LAX, next day, so ultimately 12 hours late).
Originally Posted by threeoh View Post
It's a European Union regulation interpreted by the European Court of Justice. Saying that it doesn't apply in EU-member Greece is a pretty jerk move.
At this stage I would have one of the online services make the claim on your behalf. Yes you receive less as they take a cut but better than nothing

Or let United know you are going to pursue it further with a service and see if that changes their response. If they make an offer that would net you more than you would using the service then you have options.

Last edited by Aussienarelle; Aug 19, 19 at 2:00 pm
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Old Aug 20, 19, 4:26 am
  #641  
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Since Greece is not a country that looks at a delay under 3 hours that caused you to miss your connection, compensation according to the EU Regulation does not apply.
Apart from being wrong, that isn't even sensible sentence. Escalate.
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Old Aug 21, 19, 9:42 pm
  #642  
 
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Originally Posted by Aussienarelle View Post
You could always make a claim and see what they say - a couple of hundred euros is better than nothing.
Thanks for the reply, and I think I'll give it a shot. If I get anything out of it, will consider it a win.
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Old Aug 22, 19, 5:49 am
  #643  
 
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Awaiting the departure of UA69, delayed 3.5hr and counting now due to late inbound (weather in EWR).

1. I've seen elsewhere in this thread that, based on apparent court precedent, a delayed inbound for any reason *does not* constitute exceptional circumstances and thus 261 comp is warranted. Is that indeed the case, and does anyone perhaps have links to the relevant court filings or something else I could include with a claim?

2. Just as we seemed about ready to board, the gate agent announced a further delay due to maintenance. We'll see how this develops, but I suspected there could have also been something mech related out of EWR given the inbound's delay was much greater than other Europe-bound departures around the same time. Would there be a way to find out if this is indeed the case? Although if the answer to 1). is a strong "yes", I guess mech vs. weather is a moot point?
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Old Aug 22, 19, 6:10 am
  #644  
 
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Originally Posted by WingnutSYD View Post
Awaiting the departure of UA69, delayed 3.5hr and counting now due to late inbound (weather in EWR).

1. I've seen elsewhere in this thread that, based on apparent court precedent, a delayed inbound for any reason *does not* constitute exceptional circumstances and thus 261 comp is warranted. Is that indeed the case, and does anyone perhaps have links to the relevant court filings or something else I could include with a claim?

2. Just as we seemed about ready to board, the gate agent announced a further delay due to maintenance. We'll see how this develops, but I suspected there could have also been something mech related out of EWR given the inbound's delay was much greater than other Europe-bound departures around the same time. Would there be a way to find out if this is indeed the case? Although if the answer to 1). is a strong "yes", I guess mech vs. weather is a moot point?
Assuming the flight is leaving from somewhere in the EU, apologies but I do not know all the departing cities by flight number, then you should approach the GA (gate agent) and request the written EC261 policy. They are supposed to have that available for all passengers. Unless it is extraordinary circumstances they will need to pay the compensation.
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Old Aug 22, 19, 7:15 am
  #645  
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Originally Posted by WingnutSYD View Post
Awaiting the departure of UA69, delayed 3.5hr and counting now due to late inbound (weather in EWR).

1. I've seen elsewhere in this thread that, based on apparent court precedent, a delayed inbound for any reason *does not* constitute exceptional circumstances and thus 261 comp is warranted. Is that indeed the case, and does anyone perhaps have links to the relevant court filings or something else I could include with a claim?

2. Just as we seemed about ready to board, the gate agent announced a further delay due to maintenance. We'll see how this develops, but I suspected there could have also been something mech related out of EWR given the inbound's delay was much greater than other Europe-bound departures around the same time. Would there be a way to find out if this is indeed the case? Although if the answer to 1). is a strong "yes", I guess mech vs. weather is a moot point?
Further details? Timings, for example, of arrival? What route is this?
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