Best Practices for Filing EU 261 Claims Against United?
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#586
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: FRA
Programs: Milage Plus 1K, Marriot Platinum, SPG Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 82
Moin!
Not sure on other sites, but on expertflyer you go to flight status, punch in date, airline and flight number and once the result comes up click on Comments and something like this comes up:
Comments:
0059/18JUL
P FRA/OUT 238P L00.43 ☨
P FRA/OFF 302P
P SFO/ETA 435P L00.05 MAINTENANCE
D HDQ/FRA SFO PROT UNDER GG CN1 D10
SKED FRA ORIG 155P GTD Z22 SHIP 2134
SFO 430P TERM GTA INTL
Hope that helps.
So long
-Ralf
P FRA/OUT 238P L00.43 ☨
P FRA/OFF 302P
P SFO/ETA 435P L00.05 MAINTENANCE
D HDQ/FRA SFO PROT UNDER GG CN1 D10
SKED FRA ORIG 155P GTD Z22 SHIP 2134
SFO 430P TERM GTA INTL
Hope that helps.
So long
-Ralf
#587
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 16,319
Here's the actual ruling....CNNTraveler is a little late on their reporting, it was reported by various sources last year/ It would also apply to european departure on a non-euro airline with a connection. For instance, you fly UA CDG-EWR-BOS, the CDG-EWR flight is on time, but the EWR-BOS flight gets you to BOS over 3 hours late.
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/...cp180077en.pdf
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/...cp180077en.pdf
What does this mean? Say a passenger is flying from Prague to Bangkok via Abu Dhabi, as was the case in the lawsuit on which the E.U. court based the new rule. The flight from Prague to Abu Dhabi with Czech Airlines was on time. But the second leg of the reservation from Abu Dhabi to Bangkok, operated by Etihad Airways in a codeshare agreement. was delayed more than eight hours.
The UA example would be a passenger on, say, FRA-IAD (LH) -> IAD-AUS (LH operated by UA): if there was a delay on the UA flight, you could claim compensation from LH based upon the fact that they marketed the IAD-AUS flight. It's not clear -- to me, anyway -- if this ruling would apply if the second flight were marketed by UA, but I suspect that the court would say yes. I'm just not sure if they'd say that the traveler had a case against LH or UA.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jul 18, 19 at 7:54 pm Reason: repaired quote
#588
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York NY
Programs: UA Gold, CO Plat, CO Million Miler
Posts: 2,527
Moin!
Not sure on other sites, but on expertflyer you go to flight status, punch in date, airline and flight number and once the result comes up click on Comments and something like this comes up:
Not sure on other sites, but on expertflyer you go to flight status, punch in date, airline and flight number and once the result comes up click on Comments and something like this comes up:
Comments:
0059/18JUL
P FRA/OUT 238P L00.43 ☨
P FRA/OFF 302P
P SFO/ETA 435P L00.05 MAINTENANCE
D HDQ/FRA SFO PROT UNDER GG CN1 D10
SKED FRA ORIG 155P GTD Z22 SHIP 2134
SFO 430P TERM GTA INTL
Hope that helps.
So long
-Ralf
P FRA/OUT 238P L00.43 ☨
P FRA/OFF 302P
P SFO/ETA 435P L00.05 MAINTENANCE
D HDQ/FRA SFO PROT UNDER GG CN1 D10
SKED FRA ORIG 155P GTD Z22 SHIP 2134
SFO 430P TERM GTA INTL
Hope that helps.
So long
-Ralf
#589
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: FRA
Programs: Milage Plus 1K, Marriot Platinum, SPG Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 82
Moin!
Looks like the additional information is only available up to two days back, so you need to be quick to look at it.
So long
-Ralf
So long
-Ralf
#590
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Antonio - the nicest city in northern Mexico
Programs: CO OnePass; AAdvantage Dirt; IHG Priority Club Plat; Hyatt Plat; Marriott Gold; Avis PresPref;
Posts: 857
#591
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,440
#592
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,440
2. Technically goes to the passenger; assuming your friend is ok with it going to you then no issue (even if they transfer to friend, your friend can transfer to you). If you are trying to do it without your friend's knowledge or consent you may run into ethical or bureaucratic issues.
#593
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K and MM
Posts: 163
ADVICE ON potential EU claim
The Flight in question was BCN to SFO on July 8 at 11:15 am, in Premium Plus, all on United metal, with a connection in EWR to SFO, to arrive in SFO at 5:54 pm on July 8, 2019.
Awoke to a message on the app that my flight from BCN to Newark had been delayed. The aircraft for the BCN-EWR leg arrived late in Barcelona (text said "Your 1115 am flight from Barcelona to NY/Newark is delayed because an earlier delay impacted your plane's arrival"). Went on the app and tried to book a new connecting flight, but it responded with a “no available flights” screen. Called United line and they could only get me on the 7 am flight on the next day, and I had an important day at work, so I really could not overnight in EWR, so was pretty unhappy already at that point. There were seats available on flights on the 8th but they were first class seats, and since I was a PP ticket holder (albeit with a GPU upgrade waitlisted) they would not ticket me on those flights.
The flight from BCN to EWR actually departed at 1:47 pm. It did not arrive in EWR until 4:24 pm, and that was after a long wait on the tarmac due to a gate not being available. In fact, as we landed and waited for a gate, the pilot had apologized for the delay, but said if we had complaints, we should write Oscar Munoz and he gave us all his email address over the PA!
On deplaning at EWR, I called the customer service line, since I saw some coach seats available on flights to SFO from EWR on the 8th. After a few calls every half hour or so while waiting at the airport, as I saw availability appear on the app, I had an agent who was able to confirm me on the 8 pm flight arriving at 11:30 pm.
Wrote to 1k voice mostly because I was unhappy that I was the one who had to wade through all the calls and research flights on my own to get me a seat home as early as I did, and asked for EU 261 compensation.
The response came back and said they’d refer it to a special department. Got an initial response that since it was force-majeure, no compensation would be due. Again no recognition that they didn't provide more help on helping me get home in time, and a terse sorry for the late flight but it was out of our hands pretty awful response.
I wrote back and asked what the circumstances were and they replied that “the incoming flight to Barcelona was delayed due to an uncontrollable airport gate situation delaying its departure and creating a further delay for your scheduled flight.”
I had done some research and I had read that a force majeure situation delaying a previous incoming flight for an aircraft is not an excuse for a delay of the next scheduled flight of the aircraft (a “rotational delay”). - essentially the airline is responsible to ensure their departure times are scheduled to anticipate delays in arriving flights. This was a link I found from a claims company that seems to contradict United's claimed basis for denying compensation:
https://www.weclaim.com/en-GB/travel...ational-delays
Am wondering if those who are more experienced in this issue whether it would do any good to pursue this further. I would consider using a third party collector, but if United has already rejected compensation, would it lead to a different result having the third party present this?
Thanks in advance your thoughts.
Awoke to a message on the app that my flight from BCN to Newark had been delayed. The aircraft for the BCN-EWR leg arrived late in Barcelona (text said "Your 1115 am flight from Barcelona to NY/Newark is delayed because an earlier delay impacted your plane's arrival"). Went on the app and tried to book a new connecting flight, but it responded with a “no available flights” screen. Called United line and they could only get me on the 7 am flight on the next day, and I had an important day at work, so I really could not overnight in EWR, so was pretty unhappy already at that point. There were seats available on flights on the 8th but they were first class seats, and since I was a PP ticket holder (albeit with a GPU upgrade waitlisted) they would not ticket me on those flights.
The flight from BCN to EWR actually departed at 1:47 pm. It did not arrive in EWR until 4:24 pm, and that was after a long wait on the tarmac due to a gate not being available. In fact, as we landed and waited for a gate, the pilot had apologized for the delay, but said if we had complaints, we should write Oscar Munoz and he gave us all his email address over the PA!
On deplaning at EWR, I called the customer service line, since I saw some coach seats available on flights to SFO from EWR on the 8th. After a few calls every half hour or so while waiting at the airport, as I saw availability appear on the app, I had an agent who was able to confirm me on the 8 pm flight arriving at 11:30 pm.
Wrote to 1k voice mostly because I was unhappy that I was the one who had to wade through all the calls and research flights on my own to get me a seat home as early as I did, and asked for EU 261 compensation.
The response came back and said they’d refer it to a special department. Got an initial response that since it was force-majeure, no compensation would be due. Again no recognition that they didn't provide more help on helping me get home in time, and a terse sorry for the late flight but it was out of our hands pretty awful response.
I wrote back and asked what the circumstances were and they replied that “the incoming flight to Barcelona was delayed due to an uncontrollable airport gate situation delaying its departure and creating a further delay for your scheduled flight.”
I had done some research and I had read that a force majeure situation delaying a previous incoming flight for an aircraft is not an excuse for a delay of the next scheduled flight of the aircraft (a “rotational delay”). - essentially the airline is responsible to ensure their departure times are scheduled to anticipate delays in arriving flights. This was a link I found from a claims company that seems to contradict United's claimed basis for denying compensation:
https://www.weclaim.com/en-GB/travel...ational-delays
Am wondering if those who are more experienced in this issue whether it would do any good to pursue this further. I would consider using a third party collector, but if United has already rejected compensation, would it lead to a different result having the third party present this?
Thanks in advance your thoughts.
Last edited by 94010flyer; Jul 29, 19 at 4:32 pm
#595
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,884
If this gets you nowhere, go to a third party collector.
#596
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Outside of the Asylum
Programs: 1K, *G for "life", Global Entry, Hertz PC, and my wallet
Posts: 19,248
In my EU261 battle they would not say "extraordinary circumstances" and kept saying it was "outside of United's control". I had to apply matchsticks under their fingernails to get them to use the word "extraordinary".
#597
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,269
Agreed. The European courts have been very clear that aircraft delays as a result of a late inbound do not get the airline out of paying EU compensation. Do a google search and try citing one of the previous legal cases when you reply to United.
If this gets you nowhere, go to a third party collector.
If this gets you nowhere, go to a third party collector.
What might be an "extraordinary circumstance" at BCN would not be at FRA, a major hub. OP may certainly refer this to one of the claims agencies, but finding one which takes claims for departures from Spain may be quite a challenge.
If you do proceed, the sole questions are:
1. What was the length of the delay as measured at SFO from originally scheduled to actual.
2. Were there extraordinary circumstances causing the delay.
The rest of the story is irrelevant and will only confuse the issue. EC 261/2004 claims exceeding 3-4 short declarative sentences do themselves no favor.
Don't go out and spend the EUR 600 quite yet.
#598
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Antonio - the nicest city in northern Mexico
Programs: CO OnePass; AAdvantage Dirt; IHG Priority Club Plat; Hyatt Plat; Marriott Gold; Avis PresPref;
Posts: 857
IME, UA will stonewall and spew carefully chosen language to avoid incriminating themselves while denying EC261 compensation, ultimately leading to a ."kiss off" message in which they assert the "matter is closed." Much like the health insurance industry, they know that a significant portion of claimants will grumble and moan but not pursue further. That's what I did on previous occasions but this time decided to persist. I tried every possible route before finally going to a third party. Matter is currently in process. I looked at several, chose to go with flightright.com as they were recommended by several sources.
#599
formerly MNLGuy
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: BEY
Programs: UA1K/MM DL AA
Posts: 316
Is this really not eligible?
A colleague recently experienced an unusual situation...flight was London-Houston-Orange County, all on United Airlines. Flight left LHR on time, and landed on schedule, but was held approximately 90 minutes on the ground, because there was a fuel spill and the gate was not empty... This meant that she missed the last flight to SNA... As such, she was rebooked on the first flight for the following day, given hotel and food vouchers... End of story, she arrived 14 hours later than scheduled...
United is claiming that since she arrived at the gate 65 minutes after the schedule in Houston, she is not eligible. Is UA right? If not, can someone point me to the specific point in the regulations?
Thanks!
United is claiming that since she arrived at the gate 65 minutes after the schedule in Houston, she is not eligible. Is UA right? If not, can someone point me to the specific point in the regulations?
Thanks!
#600
Moderator: United Airlines; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.85MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 60,034
Question
Was the individual on a single ticket or separate tickets?
The fuel spill -- by whom? Was the entire airport affected? Did the airport authorities "close operations?"
This might be considered an extraordinary event, exempting the airlines. This is the first time in my flight history to have heard of such an event.
Was the individual on a single ticket or separate tickets?
The fuel spill -- by whom? Was the entire airport affected? Did the airport authorities "close operations?"
This might be considered an extraordinary event, exempting the airlines. This is the first time in my flight history to have heard of such an event.