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Best Practices for Filing EU 261 Claims Against United?

Best Practices for Filing EU 261 Claims Against United?

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Old Sep 17, 19, 7:33 am   -   Wikipost
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This information is created according to Regulation EC 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of the European Union.

Link to Regulation: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.ht...C_1&format=PDF

It applies to flights departing from an airport in the EU (and Norway) and flights operated by an EU-based air carrier departing from an airport in a third country to an airport in the EU.

If you have booked several connecting flights as one single journey – that means within the same booking – the distance is from the start to the last destination indicated on your ticket where the delay or cancellation has time-related consequences for you. If you are travelling on several separate tickets, which have been booked individually, these rules apply only up until the final destination of each ticket.

All of the following conditions must apply to the situations referred to below:
  • <Airline> must be the operating carrier of the flight.
  • You must have a confirmed reservation on a flight we operate.
  • You must be fully checked-in at the time indicated or, if no time is indicated, not later than 45 minutes before the time of departure.
  • You must be travelling on a fare available directly or indirectly to the public, or on a ticket issued under a frequent flyer program.
1. In the event of a delay as listed below...
a) If the flight is delayed for two hours or more in the case or flights of 1,500 kilometers or less.

b) If the flight is delayed for three hours or more in the case of intra-EU flights of more than 1,500 kilometers.

c) If the flight is delayed for three hours or more in the case of other flights between 1,500 and 3,500 kilometers.

d) If the flight is delayed for four hours or more in the case of all flights not falling under a), b) and c).

...then operating carrier must provide the following assistance free of charge:

Meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time

Two telephone calls or e-mails

Hotel accommodation and transport between the airport and place of accommodation (These are offered if you must wait at least one night after the scheduled time of departure and are subject to local availability.)

Reimbursement of tickets (If the delay is at least five hours and you decide not to travel, reimbursement within seven days of the cost of your ticket for the part or parts of the journey not made. One is also reimbursed for the part or parts of your journey already made that no longer serve any purpose in relation to your original travel plan. When relevant, the airline can also provide reimbursement for a return flight to the first point of departure at the earliest opportunity.)

Compensation in case of delays of 3 hours or more (see section below)
2. In the event of a cancelled flight you can choose the following:
Canceling the journey and receiving reimbursement for tickets (The operating carrier must provide reimbursement within seven days of the full cost of the ticket for the part or parts of the journey not made. They must also reimburse you for the part or parts of your journey already made that no longer serve any purpose in relation to your original travel plan. When relevant, they can also provide reimbursement for a return flight to the first point of departure at the earliest opportunity.)

Re-routed, under comparable transport conditions, to your final destination (The operating carrier can offer to reroute to your final destination at the earliest opportunity or at a later date that suits you, depending on seat availability.)

Meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time

Two telephone calls or e-mails

Hotel accommodation and transport between the airport and place of accommodation (These are offered if you must wait at least one night after the scheduled time of departure and are subject to local availability.)

Compensation in case of cancellations and delays of 3 hours or more:
  • €250* for all flights less than 1,500km
  • €400* for all intra-EU flights more than 1,500km
  • €400* for all other flights between 1,500 and 3,500km
  • €600* for all flights not falling under the conditions as listed above

*The compensation described above is sometimes reduced by ½ in court if the following conditions are met:
  • If you arrive within two (2) hours after your original arrival time for flights 1,500km or less then €125.is due
  • If you arrive within three (3) hours after your original arrival time for intra-EU flights greater than 1,500km then €200 is due.
  • If you arrive within three (3) hours after your original arrival time for all other flights between 1,500km - 3,500km then €200 is due.
  • If you arrive within four (4) hours after your original arrival time for all other flights not listed above then €300 is due.
3. You are not entitled to compensation in the following situations:
If the cancellation or delay of 3 hours or more is caused by extraordinary circumstances such as:
  • extraordinary meteorological conditions
  • security risks
  • strikes affecting operations
  • political instability
ONLY if the airline can prove in court that there was no way to prevent the delay - which is very hard to do for the airline.
Delays of the INCOMING aircraft for ANY reason NEVER qualify as an exemption for compensation as per EU court rulings.

If you are informed of the cancellation at least 14 days before the time of departure

If you are informed of the cancellation between 7 and 14 days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing to your final destination, allowing you to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled time of departure and to reach your final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival.

If you are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing to your final destination, allowing you to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach your final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.

Frequently Asked Questions
If I receive & take UA's "standard" delay compensation -- a choice of miles or ETC -- does this make me ineligible for EU261 compensation?

Generally no

Archive: Best Practices for Filing EU 261 Claims Against United? {Archive}
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Old Dec 9, 18, 10:13 pm
  #451  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
It's worth calling to ask, although you likely forfeit any EC.261 rights from the delay. Being a 1K may help in terms of the flexibility they'll have.

It's in UA's best interest to help you out here to avoid having to pay you €600 if your arrival is delayed by three hours. Only you can decide what your time is worth.
Alrighty thank you. UA also sent me an email offering a $175 flight credit - there is nothing in the language on this that suggest I will forfeit any EC261 claims but I just wanted to see if anyone has experience if I accept the credit and then file a claim?
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Old Dec 9, 18, 10:17 pm
  #452  
 
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Originally Posted by nikbruno View Post
Alrighty thank you. UA also sent me an email offering a $175 flight credit - there is nothing in the language on this that suggest I will forfeit any EC261 claims but I just wanted to see if anyone has experience if I accept the credit and then file a claim?
I don't see how you'd have an EC.261 claim if you voluntarily re-route to MUC-ORD, unless MUC-ORD itself is delayed. You'd no longer have a three+ hour delay at your destination.
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Old Dec 9, 18, 10:22 pm
  #453  
 
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
I don't see how you'd have an EC.261 claim if you voluntarily re-route to MUC-ORD, unless MUC-ORD itself is delayed. You'd no longer have a three+ hour delay at your destination.
Im not rerouting, just asking whether I can accept the credit they are offering for the delay and then separately claim EC 261
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Old Dec 9, 18, 10:25 pm
  #454  
 
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Originally Posted by nikbruno View Post
Alrighty thank you. UA also sent me an email offering a $175 flight credit - there is nothing in the language on this that suggest I will forfeit any EC261 claims but I just wanted to see if anyone has experience if I accept the credit and then file a claim?
i'm assuming the $175 flight credit is an ECERT for the three hour delay from London. If you have the time the $600 euros can turn into a $900 USD united ECERT plus the $175 and you have a pretty good afternoon.. the lounge in LHR is real nice
Originally Posted by nikbruno View Post
Im not rerouting, just asking whether I can accept the credit they are offering for the delay and then separately claim EC 261
Yes
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Last edited by WineCountryUA; Dec 9, 18 at 11:49 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
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Old Dec 9, 18, 10:50 pm
  #455  
 
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Well this could get interesting... The inbound aircraft operating my new 3pm flight is delayed for 5.5hrs out of ORD now so I'll be interested to see if they cancel that one. Anyone have experience with a same day double cancellation ex EU? ha
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Old Dec 10, 18, 2:48 am
  #456  
 
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Originally Posted by nikbruno View Post
Well this could get interesting... The inbound aircraft operating my new 3pm flight is delayed for 5.5hrs out of ORD now so I'll be interested to see if they cancel that one. Anyone have experience with a same day double cancellation ex EU? ha

If the flight you are rebooked on is delayed as well, you are entitled to another 600 Euro compensation.
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Old Dec 10, 18, 2:00 pm
  #457  
 
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So United Just responded to my claim with this email “The rules state that any delay beyond 3 hours is to be compensated but if the customer is rerouted and the resulting delay is fewer than 4 hours, the customer is entitled 50% of the 600 EUR.”

is is this accurate? I arrived about 3hrs and 20 min after my originally scheduled flight LHR-ORD

Last edited by nikbruno; Dec 10, 18 at 2:17 pm
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Old Dec 10, 18, 3:15 pm
  #458  
 
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Originally Posted by nikbruno View Post
So United Just responded to my claim with this email “The rules state that any delay beyond 3 hours is to be compensated but if the customer is rerouted and the resulting delay is fewer than 4 hours, the customer is entitled 50% of the 600 EUR.”

is is this accurate? I arrived about 3hrs and 20 min after my originally scheduled flight LHR-ORD
Seems to me that you have a double claim, if I read correctly up thread your first flight was canceled. And the rebook/replaced flight left about four hours after the planned departure (I just checked the flight status). You weren't re-routed rerouting is if they took you to another city for example LHR-DUB-ORD. So since your original flight was delayed more than three hours and the replacement flight was delayed more than three hours I believe you have a double claim. But I'll let the experts chime in on that.. if so you could have about $900 for each one in United money or €600 for each one. Good luck and let us know how it all turns out (this is in addition to any compensation they give you as an apology for your elite status)
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Old Dec 10, 18, 3:47 pm
  #459  
 
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Originally Posted by Flying Machine View Post


Seems to me that you have a double claim, if I read correctly up thread your first flight was canceled. And the rebook/replaced flight left about four hours after the planned departure (I just checked the flight status). You weren't re-routed rerouting is if they took you to another city for example LHR-DUB-ORD. So since your original flight was delayed more than three hours and the replacement flight was delayed more than three hours I believe you have a double claim. But I'll let the experts chime in on that.. if so you could have about $900 for each one in United money or €600 for each one. Good luck and let us know how it all turns out (this is in addition to any compensation they give you as an apology for your elite status)
I think re-routing in this case doesn't mean through another city, it means on any flights that you weren't originally booked on. So if you're booked LHR-EWR and then you get rebooked on a different LHR-EWR flight, that's "rerouting".
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Old Dec 10, 18, 5:32 pm
  #460  
 
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Yea my original flight a 12:05 LHR-ORD departure today 12/10 was cancelled and I rebooked onto a 3:05 departure that was then delayed till after 7pm. I then rebooked myself onto a 12pm departure connecting via EWR and ultimately arrived (just now) about 3hrs and 10 min after my original scheduled arrival time. I don’t think the double claim applies here because had my second flight been on time it would have arrived about the same time as this one I’m on. My issue right now is UA is saying that I’m only entitled to 50% of the 600euro because I arrived less than 4hrs after I was originally supposed to. I am reading upthread that the new rules entitle me to the full 600 since it was greater than 3hrs but can’t find any definitive language that supports it out there. Can anyone provide a link so that I can fight UA or are they in fact correct? When I search the rules I find seem to support what they are saying but I’m not sure if it’s stale information given what I’m reading here in this thread. Thoughts on how to handle?
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Old Dec 10, 18, 5:41 pm
  #461  
 
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Bummer, I thought you had the double claim! That would've been a good one! Not sure about the three-hour rule and 50% so I'll leave that up to others. Glad you're finally home.
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Old Dec 10, 18, 6:28 pm
  #462  
 
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Originally Posted by nikbruno View Post
I am reading upthread that the new rules entitle me to the full 600 since it was greater than 3hrs but can’t find any definitive language that supports it out there. Can anyone provide a link so that I can fight UA or are they in fact correct? When I search the rules I find seem to support what they are saying but I’m not sure if it’s stale information given what I’m reading here in this thread. Thoughts on how to handle?
It's a super tangled web of court rulings.
  1. The original regulation (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ...4R0261:EN:HTML) doesn't say anything about compensation for delay, only standard of care. But it does specify compensation for cancellation, with different amounts depending on when you arrive (via "re-routing") to your final destination. There was no compensation if they re-route (i.e. book you on other flights) to get you there within 2 hours of the originally scheduled time and departing no more than 1 hour before your original departure time, and they may reduce the compensation by 50% if the delay in arrival is less than 4 hours (for TATL flights, other time limits for shorter flights).
  2. Sturgeon vs. Condor (http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/legal_servic.../07c402_en.pdf) established that you are due the cancellation compensation if your flight was delayed by "more than three hours". Three hours is the rule because that's the maximum an alternate re-routing could take (leaving 1 hour earlier and arriving 2 hours later) in the case of a cancellation without them paying comp. This creates the "3 to 4 hour" windows for delays where you're due 50%, and 4+ hours is 100%. As far as I can tell the window is 2-4 hours for cancellation and 3-4 hours for delays [for TATL]. This was reaffirmed in Nelson v Deutsche Lufthansa AG (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...%3A62010CJ0581)
  3. According to one person on this thread, the 50% rule was "thrown out" about 10 years ago, but I'm having trouble finding any info on that. The Sturgeon ruling specifically says they may still reduce the payment by 50% if the delay [on TATL journey] is less than 4 hours, in its section on proportionality. The 2012 Nelson ruling says the same thing. So not sure where that's coming from.
Other notes:
  • You are not due comp (but are due standard of care i.e. meals and hotels) if the delay or cancellation is due to "extraordinary circumstances", which has a zillion other court cases about what constitutes extraordinary and how many layers of knock-on effects (i.e. inbound is delayed by weather, you are on the outbound -- does that count?) etc. However, mechanical issues definitely count as non-extraordinary.
  • Switzerland, which enacted the same regulation, is not in the EU and so is not bound by the various court rulings.
  • Various court cases (including most recently Wegener) define delay as when the aircraft door is opened at the next destination or stopover (not connection) on your ticket, including missed connections and even if the delay occurs entirely outside of the EU.
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Old Dec 10, 18, 7:58 pm
  #463  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
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I have a similar situation. I was due to fly out on Friday FRA-EWR-LAX, but on the day of the flight, the first leg was delayed and then cancelled. I was able to get rerouted FRA-IAH-LAX. Both of those flights ended delayed, so I landed in LAX 3 hours and 45 minutes after the arrival time of my original itinerary.

If I understand correctly, since it was >3500km and <4 hours, I'd only receive 300 Euros compensation?

What doesn't make sense to me, is that if the original flight were not cancelled but also delayed, a >3 hour delay on a >3500km flight out of Europe would entitle a traveler to 600 Euros. Seems like a strange distinction to make.
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Old Dec 11, 18, 8:35 am
  #464  
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100% after 3 hours - the differnce between delay and cancellation was thown out a long time ago....
It is 3 hours anything =100% !
I am not sure but I think it was the AF case that made that clear....
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Old Dec 11, 18, 9:06 am
  #465  
 
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Originally Posted by Germanfflyer View Post
100% after 3 hours - the differnce between delay and cancellation was thown out a long time ago....
It is 3 hours anything =100% !
I am not sure but I think it was the AF case that made that clear....
Air France case is the same as Sturgeon case (they were combined and there is a single judgment). Here is a direct quote from the court ruling:

63. It is important to point out that the compensation payable to a passenger under Article 7(1) of Regulation No 261/2004 may be reduced by 50% if the conditions laid down in Article 7(2) of the regulation are met. Even though the latter provision refers only to the case of re-routing of passengers, the Court finds that the reduction in the compensation provided for is dependent solely on the delay to which passengers are subject, so that nothing precludes the application mutatis mutandis of that provision to compensation paid to passengers whose flights are delayed. It follows that the compensation payable to a passenger whose flight is delayed, who reaches his final destination three hours or more after the arrival time originally scheduled, may be reduced by 50%, in accordance with Article 7(2)(c) of Regulation No 261/2004, where the delay is – in the case of a flight not falling under points (a) or (b) of Article 7(2) – less than four hours.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...EX:62007CJ0402

Maybe there is another case that came later, but I haven't been able to find it.
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