"Expert Mode" Changes
Sep 8, 2012, 1:51 am
#346
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 183
You are right about rude and emotional commenting. You are dead wrong, however, about the substance of removing this feature.
Yes, other airlines don't have it. But it is effectively available to the public in that all travel agents can see it as well.
Further, it is important to note that UA loyal-flyers base their loyalty on the features UA does offer, not what other airlines don't offer. And UA loyal flyers make decisions to tolerate negative things on UA but not on competitors in exchange for positive things that UA has (for example DL & AA with no min fare class for int'l upgrades and AA with 8 upgrades vs. UA with 6).
Many folks like me have long treasured the ability to see not only R and award availability, but also how many seats in each class are available which allows more flexibility in timing of my purchases.
So it is quite fair and reasonable to be upset when a feature which many treasured and heavily relied upon is yanked away from us. Not cool.
Yes, other airlines don't have it. But it is effectively available to the public in that all travel agents can see it as well.
Further, it is important to note that UA loyal-flyers base their loyalty on the features UA does offer, not what other airlines don't offer. And UA loyal flyers make decisions to tolerate negative things on UA but not on competitors in exchange for positive things that UA has (for example DL & AA with no min fare class for int'l upgrades and AA with 8 upgrades vs. UA with 6).
Many folks like me have long treasured the ability to see not only R and award availability, but also how many seats in each class are available which allows more flexibility in timing of my purchases.
So it is quite fair and reasonable to be upset when a feature which many treasured and heavily relied upon is yanked away from us. Not cool.
Sep 8, 2012, 1:55 am
#347
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 288
Looking back at the posts by UA Insider, it seems the core issue was the "user confusion":
Noted as the primary reason in the OP:
Again in her follow up post:
If the core issue was 3rd parties having the data, the threat of legal action would have taken care of that and we wouldn't have known the difference.
I think if there is an "excuse" here it is that UA is using the user confusion argument to cover for the fact that they just don't want their own customers to see the data at all, irrespective of where they see it.
Noted as the primary reason in the OP:
But, it wasn’t without issues. Specifically, for many customers who are not as familiar with the ins and outs of fare structures, there was often room for this information to be misinterpreted.
But, at the end of the day, the way in which the information was shared was truly causing issues and confusion for an extremely broad audience. This is what drove the change.
I think if there is an "excuse" here it is that UA is using the user confusion argument to cover for the fact that they just don't want their own customers to see the data at all, irrespective of where they see it.
Sep 8, 2012, 1:57 am
#348
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Programs: Continental OnePass Platinum
Posts: 416
Yeah, it's definitely hard to believe the stated reason. Something so contrived is definitely gonna engender a lot of hostility. And if the real reason is to prevent screen scraping, I think people would have been somewhat forgiving had UA Insider come out and said something to that effect.
Sep 8, 2012, 2:03 am
#349
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ACT/GRK/DAL/ABI/MIA/FLL
Programs: OMNIArchist, OMNIArchy!, OMNIIDGAS
Posts: 23,478
Yeah, it's definitely hard to believe the stated reason. Something so contrived is definitely gonna engender a lot of hostility. And if the real reason is to prevent screen scraping, I think people would have been somewhat forgiving had UA Insider come out and said something to that effect.
Sep 8, 2012, 2:11 am
#350
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 158
What current revenue are they losing by doing this? I don't get it.
Sep 8, 2012, 2:14 am
#351
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ACT/GRK/DAL/ABI/MIA/FLL
Programs: OMNIArchist, OMNIArchy!, OMNIIDGAS
Posts: 23,478
That much is clear. With the data there, anything they did was subject to scrape, if they block IPs, they start using other IPs, VPNs etc to still scrape it. Making a bit of a war to keep things running properly. Screen scrapes can easily get out of hand, especially when they are sloppy code. I've seen it to impact entire networks, making me have to take serious action to stop it, but I won't go there right now, it is however, a major cost to continue this war.
I have some solutions on making it available without being subject to scrape, or need to login, but I am not in their IT and not going to offer it up.
Would I rather they had a replacement in place before disabling this? YES!
I have some solutions on making it available without being subject to scrape, or need to login, but I am not in their IT and not going to offer it up.
Would I rather they had a replacement in place before disabling this? YES!
Sep 8, 2012, 2:15 am
#352
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Honolulu
Programs: UA 1K 1.7mm
Posts: 449
UA's post merger strategy is to rid the MP program of its over entitled elites. This is a clear example of that strategy.
Sep 8, 2012, 2:17 am
#353
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: All over
Programs: Most
Posts: 10,839
Yeah. The KVS had been screen scraping but I thought that EF would have received the info through GSD. Apparently that was not the case.
Sep 8, 2012, 2:23 am
#354
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
As for calling the premier desk repeatedly: If that were the only problem, it would be bad enough. But we know that services like EF also sometimes identify award/upgrade/other options that a UA CSR will miss if they are not pointed out to him/her. This cutback cuts out our ability to find such options.
Sep 8, 2012, 2:26 am
#355
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 288
That much is clear. With the data there, anything they did was subject to scrape, if they block IPs, they start using other IPs, VPNs etc to still scrape it. Making a bit of a war to keep things running properly. Screen scrapes can easily get out of hand, especially when they are sloppy code. I've seen it to impact entire networks, making me have to take serious action to stop it, but I won't go there right now, it is however, a major cost to continue this war.
I have some solutions on making it available without being subject to scrape, or need to login, but I am not in their IT and not going to offer it up.
Would I rather they had a replacement in place before disabling this? YES!
I have some solutions on making it available without being subject to scrape, or need to login, but I am not in their IT and not going to offer it up.
Would I rather they had a replacement in place before disabling this? YES!
As a scientist would say, correlation does not imply causation.
Sep 8, 2012, 2:26 am
#356
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: where lions are led by donkeys...
Programs: Lifetime Gold, Global Entry, Hertz PC, and my wallet
Posts: 20,340
As upgrades have, for me at least, been harder to get since 3/3, then this just adds to the idiocy in the race to the bottom. At least low cost carriers are honest and don't pretend to be something they are not. My only hope is that UA allowed UAinsider to post to test the water and where better than here. Having said that the change was supposed to be in last night wasn't it? Has it disappeared ?
Sep 8, 2012, 2:28 am
#357
Join Date: Jan 2010
Programs: UA, AS
Posts: 2,393
Funny but true.
I don't get it either. They've had how many months to work this out? I can't believe the story that removing this functionality immediately is more important than keeping it available for those of us who use it on every search. Create an advanced mode (you know, like they used to have until they changed it) before you make it unusable.
I'm glad I have Expert Flyer and it's invaluable for many things but it was an extra step to use it for the simple searches so I saved some time by using the fare class display directly on united.com -- until they took it away like many other things. I hope they bring it back as an expert mode but I won't hold my breath until it happens.
I don't get it either. They've had how many months to work this out? I can't believe the story that removing this functionality immediately is more important than keeping it available for those of us who use it on every search. Create an advanced mode (you know, like they used to have until they changed it) before you make it unusable.
I'm glad I have Expert Flyer and it's invaluable for many things but it was an extra step to use it for the simple searches so I saved some time by using the fare class display directly on united.com -- until they took it away like many other things. I hope they bring it back as an expert mode but I won't hold my breath until it happens.
Sep 8, 2012, 2:29 am
#358
Join Date: Nov 2011
Programs: UA/CO, SPG, Hyatt
Posts: 162
Yes, the fare basis hyperlink no longer exists.
Sep 8, 2012, 2:31 am
#359
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ACT/GRK/DAL/ABI/MIA/FLL
Programs: OMNIArchist, OMNIArchy!, OMNIIDGAS
Posts: 23,478
You are making big assumptions. When AA pulled X/R inventory from EF, AA noted that it was being pulled from all channels, only one of which was EF. EF could have had a sanctioned connection to get the award data, but had that pulled as well since UA was removing the data from the UA website. The feed could have been powered by UA.com and when one was turned off so was the other to maintain parity (to our detriment).
As a scientist would say, correlation does not imply causation.
As a scientist would say, correlation does not imply causation.
Sep 8, 2012, 2:32 am
#360
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 158
For what it's worth I sent a complaint to United via their website. Complaining on flyer talk is one thing, sending complaints to United direct might help as well.