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New UA Revenue Fare Bucket "N" Class - UPDATE: Earns 100% PQMs/RDMs.

New UA Revenue Fare Bucket "N" Class - UPDATE: Earns 100% PQMs/RDMs.

Old Aug 21, 12, 10:50 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
I fail to understand the upset:

1. If indeed UA is introducing a rock-bottom fare with no benefits, that increases consumer choice.

2. If your employer lives in the last century, that's between you and your head hunter.

3. So long as you pay attention to detail when booking, the ordinary traveler will face no problems. Those who either need to save or don't care about miles, get a break. Others can pay a bit more.
The problem is that it's a slippery slope. To date there has never been a published fare that didn't earn PQM's.. once it starts, where does it end? Suddenly you may see N popping up all over the place. I'm not yet convinced the N fare doesn't earn PQM's... it's definitely possible the PQM's just aren't displaying correctly on the website..we've all seen that before. I hope that's the case. There's nothing in the fare rules for that N fare that precludes PQM earnings (not that there definitely would be).

And for those who have always earned miles on paid flights and who don't pay attention when booking... imagine their shock when they earn nothing. It's not like they have a big flashing banner with a warning..which they should if indeed this fare doesn't qualify. This is a major shift from historical practices (if true).
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:05 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by SEA1K4EVR View Post
The problem is that it's a slippery slope. To date there has never been a published fare that didn't earn PQM's.. once it starts, where does it end? Suddenly you may see N popping up all over the place. I'm not yet convinced the N fare doesn't earn PQM's... it's definitely possible the PQM's just aren't displaying correctly on the website..we've all seen that before. I hope that's the case. There's nothing in the fare rules for that N fare that precludes PQM earnings (not that there definitely would be).

And for those who have always earned miles on paid flights and who don't pay attention when booking... imagine their shock when they earn nothing. It's not like they have a big flashing banner with a warning..which they should if indeed this fare doesn't qualify. This is a major shift from historical practices (if true).
Unfortunately, other carriers have had these fare classes for a long time. The slippery slope appears to be leading to some place in the bottom of the value chain, along with RyanAir and Spirit Airlines. But, even real airlines have these fare classes. It might be something we have to learn to work with, and I agree, it's good for choice - basically seems like unbundling elite benefits from the fare so you can choose to pay for elite benefits or not. From UA's perspective, seems really dumb, in a world where those elite benefits have a value rapidly approaching zero. I agree that the worst part of this will be for corporate travelers required to fly on cheapest fare.
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:09 am
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by escapefromphl View Post
What are the fare restrictions? Hopefully 6 weeks advance purchase, so the corporate customer never encounters them.
Checking the fare rules in KVS, it appears fare basis NA0QS has no advance purchase restrictions. $275 R/T for the dates channa posted.
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:12 am
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by mitchmu View Post
Unfortunately, other carriers have had these fare classes for a long time. The slippery slope appears to be leading to some place in the bottom of the value chain, along with RyanAir and Spirit Airlines. But, even real airlines have these fare classes. It might be something we have to learn to work with, and I agree, it's good for choice - basically seems like unbundling elite benefits from the fare so you can choose to pay for elite benefits or not. From UA's perspective, seems really dumb, in a world where those elite benefits have a value rapidly approaching zero. I agree that the worst part of this will be for corporate travelers required to fly on cheapest fare.
Elite benefits may have been reduced but the value of UA miles is definitely not approaching zero, and is still one of the highest, if not the highest, in the industry.
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:13 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by mitchmu View Post
Unfortunately, other carriers have had these fare classes for a long time. The slippery slope appears to be leading to some place in the bottom of the value chain, along with RyanAir and Spirit Airlines. But, even real airlines have these fare classes. It might be something we have to learn to work with, and I agree, it's good for choice - basically seems like unbundling elite benefits from the fare so you can choose to pay for elite benefits or not. From UA's perspective, seems really dumb, in a world where those elite benefits have a value rapidly approaching zero. I agree that the worst part of this will be for corporate travelers required to fly on cheapest fare.
If it becomes more widespread, it would become akin to Southwest's model where benefits are based on spend.

If the lowest fares no longer earn PQMs, elite status would go to those who were actually profitable to UA. High spenders would benefit, once a year kettles wouldn't care, and those with restrictive budgets (corporate or otherwise) would feel the pain.
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:15 am
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
I fail to understand the upset:

1. If indeed UA is introducing a rock-bottom fare with no benefits, that increases consumer choice.
I seriously doubt this will result in materially lower fares, and to the extent it creates some broadly distributed benefits, I think folks here are not happy because it obviously comes at their expense.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
3. So long as you pay attention to detail when booking, the ordinary traveler will face no problems. Those who either need to save or don't care about miles, get a break. Others can pay a bit more.
I also think it's foolhardy to believe that this isn't going to cause booking nightmares for some folks given the lack of united.com reliability.
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:16 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by DeaconFlyer View Post
If it becomes more widespread, it would become akin to Southwest's model where benefits are based on spend.

If the lowest fares no longer earn PQMs, elite status would go to those who were actually profitable to UA. High spenders would benefit, once a year kettles wouldn't care, and those with restrictive budgets (corporate or otherwise) would feel the pain.
This is where UA is headed -- and it's a business decision that is really hard to argue with, when it comes down to it.
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:18 am
  #23  
 
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its all fine and dandy if they say hey next year starting Feb 1 this is what will happen, give us a heads up and not in the middle of the year.

I hate the idea, but if its going that way, thats the best IMO
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:28 am
  #24  
 
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This smells like a mistake fare to me.
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:30 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by blug View Post
Elite benefits may have been reduced but the value of UA miles is definitely not approaching zero, and is still one of the highest, if not the highest, in the industry.
Not that I know if this is another glitch or a new fare class that earns zero PQMs but based on what Channa posted this fare appears to earn United miles as you are referring to them but not PQMs i.e. You still earn miles you can redeem for awards and such but don't earn any that apply towards status.
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:32 am
  #26  
 
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For United to offer a revenue booking class on its Web site which earns fewer than 100% miles, let alone 0%, would be a bit scary. When this has been done before ("Twares") you knew what you were getting into.

I'm not sure that this screenshot gives us much evidence of anything except that there's a lookup table which maps fare classes to displayed mileage earning amounts and that lookup table says "N" => 0% or has no entry for "N" at all. That may not represent a policy announcement, just a not-yet-updated fare code=>percentage mapping on united.com. Even if united.com said that N earned something other than 0%, I still wouldn't trust that to actually be true until seeing an announcement from UA.

Originally Posted by SEA1K4EVR View Post
The problem is that it's a slippery slope. To date there has never been a published fare that didn't earn PQM's.. once it starts, where does it end? Suddenly you may see N popping up all over the place. I'm not yet convinced the N fare doesn't earn PQM's... it's definitely possible the PQM's just aren't displaying correctly on the website..we've all seen that before. I hope that's the case. There's nothing in the fare rules for that N fare that precludes PQM earnings (not that there definitely would be).
Wasn't there a time in the past few years when Continental awarded fewer frequent-flyer miles if you booked certain fare classes through a travel agent or phone, but awarded full miles if you booked on continental.com? What fare class was that?
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:36 am
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by blug View Post
Elite benefits may have been reduced but the value of UA miles is definitely not approaching zero, and is still one of the highest, if not the highest, in the industry.
Agreed. Mile redemption is a very strong point of the MP program.

Unfortunately for me, I'm one who doesn't value that as highly as upgrades, whose value has been greatly reduced.

If I fly > 100K BIS in a year, the last thing I want is more flights for free and I should be getting UG with RPU/GPU, so there's little remaining need to UG with miles.

From this perspective, the value that I'm getting is approaching zero.

Originally Posted by DeaconFlyer View Post
If it becomes more widespread, it would become akin to Southwest's model where benefits are based on spend.

If the lowest fares no longer earn PQMs, elite status would go to those who were actually profitable to UA. High spenders would benefit, once a year kettles wouldn't care, and those with restrictive budgets (corporate or otherwise) would feel the pain.
None of which is terrible. I just wish they'd stop sneaking in these little changes day by day. I wish they'd just design a comprehensive program, announce it to us comprehensively, and implement it reliably. Then, we can look at what we're dealing with and optimize our behavior against those known parameters.

Last edited by iluv2fly; Aug 21, 12 at 11:58 am Reason: merge
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:41 am
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by DeaconFlyer View Post
If it becomes more widespread, it would become akin to Southwest's model where benefits are based on spend.

If the lowest fares no longer earn PQMs, elite status would go to those who were actually profitable to UA. High spenders would benefit, once a year kettles wouldn't care, and those with restrictive budgets (corporate or otherwise) would feel the pain.
Speaking for myself, if I didn't get FF benefits I would change careers to one that did not involve nearly as much travel.
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:41 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by mitchmu View Post
None of which is terrible. I just wish they'd stop sneaking in these little changes day by day. I wish they'd just design a comprehensive program, announce it to us comprehensively, and implement it reliably. Then, we can look at what we're dealing with and optimize our behavior against those known parameters.
Agreed, but probably a tall order asking them for such forethought when they seem to be having difficulty running the airline day-to-day.
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Old Aug 21, 12, 11:43 am
  #30  
 
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On a related note. Under the RPU terms and conditions it says that N fares are upgradeable using a RPU
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