Lifetime Silverwings members file class action against UA
Aug 13, 2012, 10:56 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
Lifetime Silverwings members file class action against UA
After countless failed attempts to purchase Silverwings flight tickets, the plaintiffs and other lifetime members decided that the last resort for having UA honor its commitment to those who purchased lifetime memberships was to file a class action. All reasonable communications both by telephone and in writing failed. UA refused to fix the broken program.
Initially, when UA offered the Silverwings program, it was an annual program. It went so well that UA decided to sell lifetime memberships that offered “significant savings” on UA fares to worldwide destinations. At one point in time, there were more than five-hundred thousand Silverwings members. Only UA knows how many there are now.
The fares were called “zone” fares and the cost of each zone depended on the flying distance between the origin and destination the Silverwings member wished to travel. The lifetime membership included the option to purchase a similar Silverwings ticket for a travel companion. The companion could be a spouse of any other person chosen by the lifetime member.
After a few years, UA stopped maintaining the program. The zone fares stopped getting updated and/or prepared for international destinations. The zone fares for domestic destinations were still prepared but the fares were not a “significant savings” by any means. In fact, the domestic zone fares were much higher in price than fares that could be purchased by using united.com or a travel agent. Despite this, UA did not refund the lifetime membership fee.
Many of us wrote to UA complaining about the failure of UA to maintain the program. Initially, we were ignored. Eventually, our complaints became numerous because there were so many members complaining to UA about the inability to purchase a Silverwings ticket.
After UA stopped maintaining the program, a Silverwings ticket could not be purchased either with a significant savings or with any savings. Quite simply, UA had abandoned the program despite the fact that UA had collected our lifetime fee and did not refund it.
In fairness to UA, there was one lifetime member who complained to UA so much that UA furnished the member with a special contact at UA so that the member could continue to purchase Silverwings fares from a department within UA’s E-Commerce. However, even that one member has since been shut off entirely from purchasing Silverwings tickets since the merger of the two airlines.
UA still advertises the Silverwings program on its website
http://www.united.com/CMS/en-US/prod...lverwings.aspx
If you go to the above site and follow the directions to the letter, you cannot purchase a Silverwings ticket. The web site appears to be set up for “window dressing” purposes to cause a member to falsely believe that the Silverwings site is up and running the way if formerly did before UA allowed the program to go into a non functioning state.
Anyway, for those who purchased lifetime Silverwings memberships in the past, the filed class action might cause the court or UA to honor UA's commitment and once again, zone fares for domestic and international fares will again be available with “significant” savings on air fares.
Please recall, prior to the filing of the class action, there are two threads concerning Silverwings on Flyertalk and one thread on Mile Point. In those threads, you will see that UA was repeatedly asked to fix the broken program but they did not. UA offered empty promises and false information but allowed the program to not function.
The threads can be found here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...cancelled.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...s-members.html
http://milepoint.com/forums/threads/...mitment.15888/
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Initially, when UA offered the Silverwings program, it was an annual program. It went so well that UA decided to sell lifetime memberships that offered “significant savings” on UA fares to worldwide destinations. At one point in time, there were more than five-hundred thousand Silverwings members. Only UA knows how many there are now.
The fares were called “zone” fares and the cost of each zone depended on the flying distance between the origin and destination the Silverwings member wished to travel. The lifetime membership included the option to purchase a similar Silverwings ticket for a travel companion. The companion could be a spouse of any other person chosen by the lifetime member.
After a few years, UA stopped maintaining the program. The zone fares stopped getting updated and/or prepared for international destinations. The zone fares for domestic destinations were still prepared but the fares were not a “significant savings” by any means. In fact, the domestic zone fares were much higher in price than fares that could be purchased by using united.com or a travel agent. Despite this, UA did not refund the lifetime membership fee.
Many of us wrote to UA complaining about the failure of UA to maintain the program. Initially, we were ignored. Eventually, our complaints became numerous because there were so many members complaining to UA about the inability to purchase a Silverwings ticket.
After UA stopped maintaining the program, a Silverwings ticket could not be purchased either with a significant savings or with any savings. Quite simply, UA had abandoned the program despite the fact that UA had collected our lifetime fee and did not refund it.
In fairness to UA, there was one lifetime member who complained to UA so much that UA furnished the member with a special contact at UA so that the member could continue to purchase Silverwings fares from a department within UA’s E-Commerce. However, even that one member has since been shut off entirely from purchasing Silverwings tickets since the merger of the two airlines.
UA still advertises the Silverwings program on its website
http://www.united.com/CMS/en-US/prod...lverwings.aspx
If you go to the above site and follow the directions to the letter, you cannot purchase a Silverwings ticket. The web site appears to be set up for “window dressing” purposes to cause a member to falsely believe that the Silverwings site is up and running the way if formerly did before UA allowed the program to go into a non functioning state.
Anyway, for those who purchased lifetime Silverwings memberships in the past, the filed class action might cause the court or UA to honor UA's commitment and once again, zone fares for domestic and international fares will again be available with “significant” savings on air fares.
Please recall, prior to the filing of the class action, there are two threads concerning Silverwings on Flyertalk and one thread on Mile Point. In those threads, you will see that UA was repeatedly asked to fix the broken program but they did not. UA offered empty promises and false information but allowed the program to not function.
The threads can be found here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...cancelled.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...s-members.html
http://milepoint.com/forums/threads/...mitment.15888/
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Aug 19, 2012, 8:18 pm
#3
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Hopefully you guys found better lawyers than the Million Miler folks.
Originally Posted by LilAbner
Hey FREDD & dgcpaphd, thank-a-million.
Do you have any idea where this class action suit is heading, or if it's been filed yet?
I'm sorry, I didn't read every post, but I knew that you guys were following this closely, & thanks again!
Do you have any idea where this class action suit is heading, or if it's been filed yet?
I'm sorry, I didn't read every post, but I knew that you guys were following this closely, & thanks again!
Aug 19, 2012, 8:21 pm
#4
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,933
Seriously, I never heard about this and what was their beef?
Aug 19, 2012, 8:22 pm
#5
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,489
It's my understanding it's been filed, but I haven't seen a copy of the complaint.
Aug 19, 2012, 9:39 pm
#7
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Location: DFW
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I'll post a copy of the complaint to my google docs folder tomorrow. It's done by the same firm that is doing the million miler suit and is an almost carbon copy of the MM complaint. Unfortunatly that means while there is more merit to this action than the mm complaint, the poor quality of representation will impact the lawsuit
I'll post a copy of the complaint to my google docs folder tomorrow. It's done by the same firm that is doing the million miler suit and is an almost carbon copy of the MM complaint. Unfortunatly that means while there is more merit to this action than the mm complaint, the poor quality of representation will impact the lawsuit
Last edited by colpuck; Feb 26, 2013 at 8:37 am
Aug 19, 2012, 9:46 pm
#8
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,933
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_1_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B206 Safari/7534.48.3)
I'll post a copy of the complaint to my google docs folder tomorrow. It's done by the same firm that is doing the million miler suit and is an almost carbon copy of the MM complaint. Unfortunatly that means while there is more merit to this action than the mm complaint, it poor quality of representation will impact the lawsuit
I'll post a copy of the complaint to my google docs folder tomorrow. It's done by the same firm that is doing the million miler suit and is an almost carbon copy of the MM complaint. Unfortunatly that means while there is more merit to this action than the mm complaint, it poor quality of representation will impact the lawsuit
Feb 25, 2013, 11:26 pm
#9
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: united mileage plus, united silver wings, true blue
Posts: 1
SilverWingsPlus vs. new Veterans Advantage Discount
Hello Flyertalkers,
I'm an old SilverWinger who had pretty much given up on ever getting anything out of my lifetime membership. When what should my eyes behold but a brand new United Veterans Advantage Discount program-- free trial and then a monthly fee. Now there are probably many veterans on United roles, and perhaps most of the Silverwingers are veterans too. Is it possible that United would like to reclaim our loyalty by offering us free access to the Veterans 5% program without requiring the monthly fee? I'm brand new to this game, but sure would like to hear from anyone (especially Fredd) looking for a win-win solution. It certainly is difficult to consider signing up for a new United program when the old SilverWinger program has been so harshly treated.
PS Has United responded to the class action suit, and is it still possible to join?
I'm an old SilverWinger who had pretty much given up on ever getting anything out of my lifetime membership. When what should my eyes behold but a brand new United Veterans Advantage Discount program-- free trial and then a monthly fee. Now there are probably many veterans on United roles, and perhaps most of the Silverwingers are veterans too. Is it possible that United would like to reclaim our loyalty by offering us free access to the Veterans 5% program without requiring the monthly fee? I'm brand new to this game, but sure would like to hear from anyone (especially Fredd) looking for a win-win solution. It certainly is difficult to consider signing up for a new United program when the old SilverWinger program has been so harshly treated.
PS Has United responded to the class action suit, and is it still possible to join?
Last edited by Hank4kd; Feb 25, 2013 at 11:31 pm Reason: PS thought and correct transposition of %5
Feb 26, 2013, 10:10 am
#10
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,489
Hello Flyertalkers,
I'm an old SilverWinger who had pretty much given up on ever getting anything out of my lifetime membership. When what should my eyes behold but a brand new United Veterans Advantage Discount program-- free trial and then a monthly fee. Now there are probably many veterans on United roles, and perhaps most of the Silverwingers are veterans too. Is it possible that United would like to reclaim our loyalty by offering us free access to the Veterans 5% program without requiring the monthly fee? I'm brand new to this game, but sure would like to hear from anyone (especially Fredd) looking for a win-win solution. It certainly is difficult to consider signing up for a new United program when the old SilverWinger program has been so harshly treated.
PS Has United responded to the class action suit, and is it still possible to join?
I'm an old SilverWinger who had pretty much given up on ever getting anything out of my lifetime membership. When what should my eyes behold but a brand new United Veterans Advantage Discount program-- free trial and then a monthly fee. Now there are probably many veterans on United roles, and perhaps most of the Silverwingers are veterans too. Is it possible that United would like to reclaim our loyalty by offering us free access to the Veterans 5% program without requiring the monthly fee? I'm brand new to this game, but sure would like to hear from anyone (especially Fredd) looking for a win-win solution. It certainly is difficult to consider signing up for a new United program when the old SilverWinger program has been so harshly treated.
PS Has United responded to the class action suit, and is it still possible to join?
AFAIK the suit is still proceeding. UA responded and there seem to be long gaps between any activity.
It's my understanding from reading the Million Miler lawsuit thread that steps are taken to certify a suit as a class action once a judge rules that the suit in question may proceed. I'm certainly not a lawyer so that may be quite inaccurate.
At that point I don't if UA has the responsibility to supply the addresses of Silver Wings lifetime members and they are sent notices to "opt in" or "opt out" but certainly nothing like that has happened yet.
Do you have link to that veterans' program? I for one have never heard of it and would be interested how it compares to Silver Wings.
Feb 26, 2013, 10:17 am
#11
Moderator: Luxury Hotels and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, California,USA
Posts: 17,854
I'm not a lawyer either but it is typical that if the class action is certified, United will be required to provide whatever information it has on those who joined Silver Wings.
Feb 27, 2013, 7:52 pm
#12
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: BOS
Programs: MP,MR Silver,Avis
Posts: 848
Veterans Advantage is not a UA program. It is a general discount program that UA participates in. www.veteransadvantage.com
United is proud to provide Veterans Advantage® members with a 5% discount on tickets for United- and United Express®-operated flights purchased on united.com. Members can also receive a 5% discount on tickets purchased on united.com for flights that are marketed by United and operated by Air Canada or Lufthansa.*
Itineraries must originate in the U.S. to be eligible
Eligible reservations are limited to three passengers or fewer
Discount is applied to the published base fares and does not include any taxes or fees
Eligible flight segments will be marked with a blue star on united.com
United is proud to provide Veterans Advantage® members with a 5% discount on tickets for United- and United Express®-operated flights purchased on united.com. Members can also receive a 5% discount on tickets purchased on united.com for flights that are marketed by United and operated by Air Canada or Lufthansa.*
Itineraries must originate in the U.S. to be eligible
Eligible reservations are limited to three passengers or fewer
Discount is applied to the published base fares and does not include any taxes or fees
Eligible flight segments will be marked with a blue star on united.com
Feb 27, 2013, 8:42 pm
#13
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
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It's not going to be a clear-cut case IMHO. Since it does not look like UA promised anything other than "significant savings", they could offer discount zone fares below walk-up fares and get away with it. It doesn't look like they promise fares to be cheaper than advance booking fares that might be available. As long as Silver Wings can book a zone fare ticket, I'm not sure what the case is. UA's hope is that the Silver Wings members go away (and the demographics are in UA's favor) by streching it out.
Jun 27, 2013, 12:26 am
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
There was a status hearing on June 18, 2013. The hearing went well in that UA's motion to dismiss was not granted.
The next status hearing is August 2 and another is scheduled for August 5.
So far, the case is on track and hopefully, the class action will be certified sometime this summer.
Smisek's choice to fight the Silverwings case is but one more example of the contempt Smisek and Rainey have for UA customers as a whole.
Smisek's callous disregard for customers is a major reason why UA has lost, and continues to lose, millions of dollars (more than one and one-half billion dollars) since Smisek took control of UA.
To not honor the lifetime Silverwings commitment is an intentional breach.
UA charged members money for a lifetime membership fee, the money was paid to UA. However, UA kept and spent the money members paid, but UA refuses to honor the terms of the contract. Until recently, the Silverwings program was shown on united.com but it has been removed.
The famous words of Joseph Nye Welch appear appropriate in connection with UA's behavior over the breach of the Silverwings contract, "Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
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The next status hearing is August 2 and another is scheduled for August 5.
So far, the case is on track and hopefully, the class action will be certified sometime this summer.
Smisek's choice to fight the Silverwings case is but one more example of the contempt Smisek and Rainey have for UA customers as a whole.
Smisek's callous disregard for customers is a major reason why UA has lost, and continues to lose, millions of dollars (more than one and one-half billion dollars) since Smisek took control of UA.
To not honor the lifetime Silverwings commitment is an intentional breach.
UA charged members money for a lifetime membership fee, the money was paid to UA. However, UA kept and spent the money members paid, but UA refuses to honor the terms of the contract. Until recently, the Silverwings program was shown on united.com but it has been removed.
The famous words of Joseph Nye Welch appear appropriate in connection with UA's behavior over the breach of the Silverwings contract, "Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
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