UACO July consolidated traffic data
Aug 8, 2012, 4:51 pm
#31
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, AS GM, AA Gold, Hyatt Plat, SPG Gold
Posts: 102
Does the comparable PRASM number adjust for things such as adding or removing E+?
All else equal:
More E+ = Less Available Seats
Less Available Seats = Lower Denominator
Lower Denominator = Higher PRASM
All else equal:
More E+ = Less Available Seats
Less Available Seats = Lower Denominator
Lower Denominator = Higher PRASM
Aug 8, 2012, 4:57 pm
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...age-miles.html
But I do wonder whether those compensating AA features really might make up for the disadvantages of UA, not least the lousy UA IRROPS, frequent delays, lousy customer service and SHARES.
Aug 8, 2012, 5:08 pm
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,167
Similar to TODs no longer being denied after the avalanche of evidence showing they do exist
Aug 8, 2012, 5:13 pm
#34
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: AA LT Plat, UA 1k/1mm+, National EE, IC Plat, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 2,605
That's what should be happening, but the exact opposite is happening...think what the numbers would look like if they hadn't been ripping out Y seats on the PMCO planes...
Aug 8, 2012, 5:15 pm
#36
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PAE
Posts: 302
Nothing will happen until a consistent trend of underperformance is established.
Aug 8, 2012, 5:20 pm
#37
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The World.
Programs: UA MP/UC - "RIP Tulip Plat"
Posts: 1,225
Believe me I follow all those threads with great interest. United has been a huge part of my life and I feel that I have a big stake (2.4 million lifetime miles and 2.3 million miles in my account) in its success or failure. I do not wish my hometown airline ill however I wish the HouCrew would go away and leave my beloved United alone.
It's extremely scary if the BOD doesn't realize and reverse the mistake in giving the helm of a Major League Airline to a Little League team, then we will all be in some trouble.
But when the Judicial, Legislative, and Executive branches are all ran by the same guy, I doubt anything will change soon.
Aug 8, 2012, 5:30 pm
#38
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chicago
Programs: Hyatt Glob; UA 1K; BonVoyage LTT (RIP SPG); HH Dia; JX Insighter
Posts: 1,642
What were DL's numbers compared to the rest of the industry in the first 3-4 quarters after the NW acquisition? Or same for US/America West? Can anyone provide a link? These are terrible on their face, but I'd like to compare to the past few largeish mergers.
Aug 8, 2012, 5:53 pm
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
DOT Air Travel Consumer Reports have plenty of comparison data: on-time, IDB, mishandled bag rates, etc.
http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/atcr10.htm
Aug 8, 2012, 8:15 pm
#40
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium.;UA 1.5MM; UA Lifetime Gold (whoppee); DL Plat
Posts: 2,124
[QUOTE=Brasila;19083640]I cannot see how they can turn it around. They have created so much bad will with UA Elites and I am doing the unthinkable and flying other airlines. Their CSR's do not have the skills or equipment to be efficient, boarding processes are a scrum, customers continually have to monitor their accounts for schedule changes, flights are over-priced, the list goes on.....
+1 Once you crap your nest(UA), it's hard to ever get it clean again!
+1 Once you crap your nest(UA), it's hard to ever get it clean again!
Aug 8, 2012, 10:34 pm
#41
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: ORD / MDW / FLL
Programs: DL DM/1MM, AA EXP, SPG Platinum, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 2,295
You have to look at this for how bad it is:
1. Your largest competitor (DL) had a 4% jump in PRASM while you are flat.
2. The bankrupt competitor that declared war on you by targeting your elites posted the largest jump in PRASM...while they are struggling through bankruptcy. In the past three months I have personally moved over $20K from UA to AA...including three TATL flights up front.
3. An airline that allegedly has a worse reputation historically than your (US) even posted a boost in PRASM.
If this does not get the attention of SMI/J and his cronies on Wacker Drive I do not know what will. This is just a disaster for UA. It's a shame they brought it on themselves.
1. Your largest competitor (DL) had a 4% jump in PRASM while you are flat.
2. The bankrupt competitor that declared war on you by targeting your elites posted the largest jump in PRASM...while they are struggling through bankruptcy. In the past three months I have personally moved over $20K from UA to AA...including three TATL flights up front.
3. An airline that allegedly has a worse reputation historically than your (US) even posted a boost in PRASM.
If this does not get the attention of SMI/J and his cronies on Wacker Drive I do not know what will. This is just a disaster for UA. It's a shame they brought it on themselves.
Aug 8, 2012, 11:02 pm
#42
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
I'm not so much alarmed or upset by those figures as I am by the flat PRASM numbers in a peak travel month like July. They seem to indicate that high revenue flyers may indeed be deserting United. We'll see if this is just a blip in the radar or evidence of a larger trend as more info comes in over time.
Believe me I follow all those threads with great interest. United has been a huge part of my life and I feel that I have a big stake (2.4 million lifetime miles and 2.3 million miles in my account) in its success or failure. I do not wish my hometown airline ill however I wish the HouCrew would go away and leave my beloved United alone.
Are your sure you're such a captive? I don't want to violate rules by repeating my post citing the advantages and compensating features of AA out of SFO, in this AA forum thread you started:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...age-miles.html
But I do wonder whether those compensating AA features really might make up for the disadvantages of UA, not least the lousy UA IRROPS, frequent delays, lousy customer service and SHARES.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...age-miles.html
But I do wonder whether those compensating AA features really might make up for the disadvantages of UA, not least the lousy UA IRROPS, frequent delays, lousy customer service and SHARES.
I respect that others put different weights on each variable in the equation.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 pm Reason: merge
Aug 9, 2012, 12:09 am
#43
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SFO and OAK
Programs: FAF, Hyatt <>, SPG PLT
Posts: 2,240
I have studied a lot of compensating ideas in favor of AA out of SFO. For me, I've concluded that I am captive because I simply don't want to change planes to get anywhere from here. In my calculations, the downside of an unnecessary connection ... almost all the time ... has a heavy weight.
I respect that others put different weights on each variable in the equation.
I respect that others put different weights on each variable in the equation.
I'm a huge fan of the best schedule winning out. Its why I fly WN frequently if I have to go up and down the west coast.
Lastly, have you thought about getting 50k status on 2 carriers? Seems to me like top tier means less on United than in the past. I don't have enough experience with AA to know if EXP is far superior to PLT. But its another thing to consider.
Aug 9, 2012, 12:50 am
#44
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
Reference the thread about the mass exodus of top tier elites from UA to AA this summer and the thread about the amount of money people just spent on tickets at other airlines. Two big threads about a mass exodus and now the numbers are starting to show that some people who post on FT might actually be telling the truth
Joking aside...people can write whatever they want on the boards about leaving for another airline or sending $10K worth of tickets to AA or DL but only the numbers can prove them right. The numbers seem to be leaning that way right now.-RM
Smisek's policies are unusual and they took most of us by surprise (trashing elites and demoting the frequent flier program). This caused many elites to abandon UA after many years of loyalty.
There is no question that AA's July traffic increased as a result of the UA status match and AA's charming away customers that normally would have been UA passengers.
AA should thank Smisek profusely for his poor decisions. I suspect AA is very thankful.
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Aug 9, 2012, 6:42 am
#45
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,167
Horton should send $misek weekly Delightful Deliveries.