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UAs Official Response to HKG Ticketing/IT Error: Redeem @ Correct Amount or Redeposit

UAs Official Response to HKG Ticketing/IT Error: Redeem @ Correct Amount or Redeposit

Old Jul 18, 12, 12:49 am
  #796  
 
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Originally Posted by MarkXS View Post
What most posters are missing is that there's a subtext to the DOT regulations, and we should be seeing it: The reason that the regulations explicitly say "mistake fares" are covered and cannot be raised after ticketing is to provide a deterrent from sloppy practices, deliberately or not, by inflicting a penalty on the airline that tries to get away with weaseling out of honoring its mistakes.

Mistakes aren't supposed to happen. That's why they're called mistakes. "Miss-takes."

In the past, airlines had impunity when the made a mistake. Now the DOT regulations say, "tough luck Charlie, eat it and let the customer fly."

If eating it causes millions of dollars in losses to the airline, than that's a darn good "teachable moment" to encourage that and other airlines to fix their business processes, controls, and systems to not do it again.

All us current or ex-UA/CO flyers are pretty disgusted with all the systems and business processes and bad decisions around IT and training resulting from the botched merger, right? Well isn't making United eat it and honor these EXACTLY the kind of lesson SMI/J needs to get about how much he screwed up? Me buying flights on Taca, LAN, and Alaska instead of UA doesn't exactly send a message the way a DOT order to honor the tickets or pay the fine does.

I didn't get in on this one, and I had no excuse, because I wasn't in jail without WiFi (to paraphrase MommyPoints BoardingArea blog.) So I don't have a dog in this race. I've never gotten this good a deal; just the Y-cabin $314 LAS to MUC and $214 LAX-LHR LH/UA combo meals a few years back, and getting screwed out of a better one on Air Canada a couple of years ago, months after booking. But this is now, and the DOT rules are now different and stronger, and explicit that mistakes must be ordered.

Those same rules also require one cash price quote, without the nonsense about what's base fare, YQ, taxes, 9/11 fee etc - it's got to be quoted as "what does the customer's form of payment get charged to be able to fly on the plane?" Put that concept together with the "mistakes must be honored" and these tickets did cost money, did have value other than the miles. A monkey could see that UA has very little wiggle room here, and that their UA Insider response was old-rules-thinking.

UA screwed up, and under the law nowadays in the USA, they have to honor their screwup. Which is a great incentive to stop screwing up.
Couldn't agree more ^^^
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Old Jul 18, 12, 12:52 am
  #797  
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Wow lots of bitter people here who didn't get a ticket and now pulling the ethics card!

But more importantly, why do I keep reading about UA F?
I purposely avoided UA flights! Am I the only one?
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Old Jul 18, 12, 1:18 am
  #798  
 
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Originally Posted by MarkXS View Post
What most posters are missing is that there's a subtext to the DOT regulations, and we should be seeing it: The reason that the regulations explicitly say "mistake fares" are covered and cannot be raised after ticketing is to provide a deterrent from sloppy practices, deliberately or not, by inflicting a penalty on the airline that tries to get away with weaseling out of honoring its mistakes...

Just another self-serving rationalization for taking advantage of other people. I'm not surprised when folks take advantage of others' mistakes, but the self-righteous justifications that people manage to talk themselves into after the act are pretty funny.

This law was clearly not intended to promote glitch-free computer systems. It was intended to protect consumers.

By taking advantage of the legislation and applying to the government for this law's enforcement in a situation where the consumer is clearly taking advantage of the airline, rather than the airline taking advantage of the consumer, one makes it less likely that everyday consumers will be able to find protection from similar laws from in the future, and one wastes our community's resources by requiring bureaucracy to address these frivolous complaints.
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Old Jul 18, 12, 1:22 am
  #799  
 
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Originally Posted by HKChicago View Post
Topical column in NYT today discussing the sorry state of American "individualism" (read: apathetic self-entitlement)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/op...me&ref=general

I wonder if the internet, and particularly forums like Slickdeals, Flyertalk Mileage Runs, etc. contribute to this - communities full of people perfecting and idolizing what at best amounts to wasteful miserliness and at worst amounts to theft.
Excellent article. Thanks for posting it here.^

It's amazing how truculent some of these deal grabbers here sound.
The truth is, nobody owes them anything, not UAL, not the world.
What will happen, will happen, and all the whining in the world will not change that.

Originally Posted by sbrower View Post
I bet you $5 that UAL is willing to lose that revenue rather than honor the ticket. Send me a PM if I owe you the money.
Now, now. No wagering here!
But you are still right.

Last edited by iluv2fly; Jul 18, 12 at 7:14 am Reason: merge
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Old Jul 18, 12, 1:23 am
  #800  
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Originally Posted by HKChicago View Post
Just another self-serving rationalization for taking advantage of other people
A large corporation to me doesn't equal people... Sorry.
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Old Jul 18, 12, 1:41 am
  #801  
 
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Originally Posted by rankourabu View Post
Wow lots of bitter people here who didn't get a ticket and now pulling the ethics card!

But more importantly, why do I keep reading about UA F?
I purposely avoided UA flights! Am I the only one?
No your not. That's exactly why I didn't get in on this. I thought partner flights were not part of it and I won't fly UA internationally ANYWHERE FOR ANY PRICE. Honestly. I also didn't expect them to be honored and still don't so I didn't really look for partner space.

I have no problem w the people that got this deal. My problem is with the ones screaming DOT this and LAWSUIT that. They should have known from the beginning this would happen. They talk a good game of teaching UA a lesson but that's garbage. We may all be hurt by these few selfish OVER ENTITLED people. What happens when UA now refuses to ticket awards without 48 hour notice or has each one reviewed etc etc. With all of UA's problems. Milesge Plus is still pretty good. But it would be UA's right to take a lot away from the program leaving it not any better then Deltas. (That is what the legacy of this mistake may leave us with)

Originally Posted by MarkXS View Post
What most posters are missing is that there's a subtext to the DOT regulations, and we should be seeing it: The reason that the regulations explicitly say "mistake fares" are covered and cannot be raised after ticketing is to provide a deterrent from sloppy practices, deliberately or not, by inflicting a penalty on the airline that tries to get away with weaseling out of honoring its mistakes.

Mistakes aren't supposed to happen. That's why they're called mistakes. "Miss-takes."

In the past, airlines had impunity when the made a mistake. Now the DOT regulations say, "tough luck Charlie, eat it and let the customer fly."

If eating it causes millions of dollars in losses to the airline, than that's a darn good "teachable moment" to encourage that and other airlines to fix their business processes, controls, and systems to not do it again.

All us current or ex-UA/CO flyers are pretty disgusted with all the systems and business processes and bad decisions around IT and training resulting from the botched merger, right? Well isn't making United eat it and honor these EXACTLY the kind of lesson SMI/J needs to get about how much he screwed up? Me buying flights on Taca, LAN, and Alaska instead of UA doesn't exactly send a message the way a DOT order to honor the tickets or pay the fine does.

I didn't get in on this one, and I had no excuse, because I wasn't in jail without WiFi (to paraphrase MommyPoints BoardingArea blog.) So I don't have a dog in this race. I've never gotten this good a deal; just the Y-cabin $314 LAS to MUC and $214 LAX-LHR LH/UA combo meals a few years back, and getting screwed out of a better one on Air Canada a couple of years ago, months after booking. But this is now, and the DOT rules are now different and stronger, and explicit that mistakes must be ordered.

Those same rules also require one cash price quote, without the nonsense about what's base fare, YQ, taxes, 9/11 fee etc - it's got to be quoted as "what does the customer's form of payment get charged to be able to fly on the plane?" Put that concept together with the "mistakes must be honored" and these tickets did cost money, did have value other than the miles. A monkey could see that UA has very little wiggle room here, and that their UA Insider response was old-rules-thinking.

UA screwed up, and under the law nowadays in the USA, they have to honor their screwup. Which is a great incentive to stop screwing up.
Well written and makes a lot if sense except you give not one sentence or word about "consequences" of taking advantage of this screw up". As I just said in my post above we will have those people that took UA to the mat on this to blame when UA tightens up its rules w Mileage Plus. When they make us wait 48 hours for ticketing in the future, NO MORE close in bookings, NO MORE fun side trips by people that know how to work the system, NO MORE changes after travel begins, etc, etc, etc. MP is a pretty good program right now. I doubt management will lose a wink of sleep if they bring the program down a peg or two. Who could blame them. They would not be in this mess if they didn't allow same day ticketing. Perhaps we all will lose that great part of the program as a consequence of taking UA to court or filing a protest with the DOT

Last edited by iluv2fly; Jul 18, 12 at 7:15 am Reason: merge
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Old Jul 18, 12, 2:11 am
  #802  
 
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The local CBS station in San Francisco, KPIX, piled on to this fiasco.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/vid...kong-a-glitch/

In general, I have little to zero faith in local television reporters when it comes to doing stories about aviation. This report was absolutely *horrendous.* It fabricated some generalization that the airline's "legions of frequent fliers" were upset by this obvious glitch that United Airlines isn't making good on.

I'm glad UAInsider cleared it up here for us FTers, but the best part of the CBS "news" report was the fact that the reporter never bothered to get the other side of the story from the airline itself!

DOT rules or no rules, common sense needs to prevail once in a while folks.
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Old Jul 18, 12, 2:18 am
  #803  
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Originally Posted by TravelBeat View Post
In general, I have little to zero faith in local television reporters when it comes to doing stories about aviation. This report was absolutely *horrendous.* It fabricated some generalization that the airline's "legions of frequent fliers" were upset by this obvious glitch that United Airlines isn't making good on.

I'm glad UAInsider cleared it up here for us FTers, but the best part of the CBS "news" report was the fact that the reporter never bothered to get the other side of the story from the airline itself!
Welcme to FlyerTalk!


The quotes from the 'expert' who was interviewed were so generic and cut up into pieces that one could not really be sure that he was even speaking about this issue. Furthermore, his last comment about the DOT not wanting to have anything to do with mileage tickets was quite clearly at odds with what was printed in the Useless Tday regarding this story.
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Old Jul 18, 12, 2:45 am
  #804  
 
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Originally Posted by TravelBeat View Post
The local CBS station in San Francisco, KPIX, piled on to this fiasco.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/vid...kong-a-glitch/

In general, I have little to zero faith in local television reporters when it comes to doing stories about aviation. This report was absolutely *horrendous.* It fabricated some generalization that the airline's "legions of frequent fliers" were upset by this obvious glitch that United Airlines isn't making good on.

I'm glad UAInsider cleared it up here for us FTers, but the best part of the CBS "news" report was the fact that the reporter never bothered to get the other side of the story from the airline itself!

DOT rules or no rules, common sense needs to prevail once in a while folks.
Who was that fool they interviewed? A "self proclaimed" expert? You could tell right off the bat he doesn't like UA to begin with and instead of citing any kind of law, he dances around like a little girl singing "frequent flyer mileage ooh ooh ooh". He must be a gem in front of a judge. That was a ridiculous filler of of "news"
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Old Jul 18, 12, 2:55 am
  #805  
 
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it looks like air china had the same problem last week
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...t_15577414.htm
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Old Jul 18, 12, 2:57 am
  #806  
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Originally Posted by xuni4everx View Post
it looks like air china had the same problem last week
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...t_15577414.htm
And they honored the tickets:

On July 12, Air China announced on its micro blog it will cover the losses caused by the booking system error and passengers could travel for the price listed.
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Old Jul 18, 12, 3:00 am
  #807  
 
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Originally Posted by jammanxc View Post
A great supplemental read to this is reading Seth's blog on his take-

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/thewan...zies-come-out/

83 comments and counting on Seth vs. FTG

Thanks for posting that, just unreal, frugal guy...
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Old Jul 18, 12, 3:10 am
  #808  
 
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Post

Originally Posted by RS250Racer View Post
Thanks for posting that, just unreal, frugal guy...
I love FTG, and still do, but I also admit that saying it's discrimination, of any kind, because others got to go is pretty absurd. It reminds me of a child on a playground saying "That boy got to do it, so should I!" ..

Or in a more real perspective - it's like if Best Buy advertised a price mistake, and a few folks were able to purchase the product before they caught on and corrected it. You can't go to Best Buy saying, "Hey! Other people got to buy it for $1, why do I have to pay $100? That's discrimination!"

It's an argument that holds no water at all, and does defy logic, and it was disappointing to me to hear this from FTG. But hey, I've said many, many stupid things myself!
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Old Jul 18, 12, 4:17 am
  #809  
 
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Originally Posted by Short hair Francis View Post
Can we at least wait until we know if UA is going to have honor or not, we haven't had a Single report after "Shannon's post, the USA today article and the DOT spokes person .
No one has flown to my knowledge after all these stuff came out.
FS has said someone is flying very soon, can we not get ahead of ourselves please?
At this point it might be good to have a 3rd thread, for posting actual updates/information only, and leave this one open for the whining, arguing, moralizing, etc.

At this point I just want to know what other folks are experiencing and couldn't care less about the rest of it, but have to wade through this chaff. Just a thought.
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Old Jul 18, 12, 4:25 am
  #810  
 
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Originally Posted by 84fiero View Post
At this point it might be good to have a 3rd thread, for posting actual updates/information only, and leave this one open for the whining, arguing, moralizing, etc.

At this point I just want to know what other folks are experiencing and couldn't care less about the rest of it, but have to wade through this chaff. Just a thought.
^^^^^^ +4 UA miles
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