UAs Official Response to HKG Ticketing/IT Error: Redeem @ Correct Amount or Redeposit
Jul 17, 2012, 10:24 am
#406
Join Date: Jun 2010
Programs: Whatever's Cheapest, Accruing Miles, Redeeming for Premium Cabins, Not Chasing Status Unnecessarily
Posts: 2,264
Except I think its been made pretty clear over the past few days that the law is different for airlines (DOT rules). Whether that law requires the mistake to be honored, well, there seems to be a slight difference of opinion. 
My biggest question remains, if United is legally entitled to cancel the reservation unilaterally, why haven't they done so?
My biggest question remains, if United is legally entitled to cancel the reservation unilaterally, why haven't they done so?
Jul 17, 2012, 10:28 am
#407
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: United 1K & AA Exec Plat
Posts: 87
Is it safe to asume they re still going over their options as to why they didnt start calling yet and that the post by UA Insider was just premature
Jul 17, 2012, 10:28 am
#408
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: UA 1K, SPG Platinum, UA Million Miler
Posts: 2,596
Nail. Hammer. Head.
Jul 17, 2012, 10:30 am
#409
Join Date: Sep 2010
Programs: Double Platinum all programs (Shh it's a secret level)
Posts: 250
The rhetoric here really is overheated.
Let's say somebody found a deal on Amazon for a nice flat screen TV for $800. When you put it in the cart, it became a penny. Somebody bought it, got it shipped, and then posted in on slickdeals. Unsurprisingly, thousands of people then placed their orders for penny TVs. Also, not surprisingly, Amazon refuses to ship these TVs and plans to cancel the orders.
In the case of Amazon, the law is pretty clear. Nobody else is going to be getting penny TVs. The buyers are out of luck.
Folks want to claim the law is different for airlines, but there's no legal precedent for this. Nor is there a rational basis for it: it makes no sense that a business should be held responsible for a huge, obvious pricing error when they promptly correct the mistake. I think most fair-minded folks would agree with this principle. They certainly would if they owned and ran their OWN business.
I would therefore respectfully request turning down the rhetoric. Sure, it would be nice if UA honored these reservations, but don't get all high and mighty about it. It's neither productive nor attractive.
Let's say somebody found a deal on Amazon for a nice flat screen TV for $800. When you put it in the cart, it became a penny. Somebody bought it, got it shipped, and then posted in on slickdeals. Unsurprisingly, thousands of people then placed their orders for penny TVs. Also, not surprisingly, Amazon refuses to ship these TVs and plans to cancel the orders.
In the case of Amazon, the law is pretty clear. Nobody else is going to be getting penny TVs. The buyers are out of luck.
Folks want to claim the law is different for airlines, but there's no legal precedent for this. Nor is there a rational basis for it: it makes no sense that a business should be held responsible for a huge, obvious pricing error when they promptly correct the mistake. I think most fair-minded folks would agree with this principle. They certainly would if they owned and ran their OWN business.
I would therefore respectfully request turning down the rhetoric. Sure, it would be nice if UA honored these reservations, but don't get all high and mighty about it. It's neither productive nor attractive.
Jul 17, 2012, 10:31 am
#410
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ORD
Programs: nobody
Posts: 1,837
Tell that to the current gov't
To be honest, I can see both side of the viewpoint. United want to limit their losses. People got in on the deal wants them to honor the deal as it is a valid "contract". I believe whats goes around comes around, passenger might win this time, but if that is the case, I think United might get rid of instant ticketing (not if they are having it now) and implement 24 hour hold on all ticket.
To be honest, I can see both side of the viewpoint. United want to limit their losses. People got in on the deal wants them to honor the deal as it is a valid "contract". I believe whats goes around comes around, passenger might win this time, but if that is the case, I think United might get rid of instant ticketing (not if they are having it now) and implement 24 hour hold on all ticket.
Jul 17, 2012, 10:32 am
#411
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: WI
Programs: A bunch
Posts: 488
Honestly this thread is a little pathetic IMHO. It sounds like a bunch of entitled babys crying over nothing. This was a mistake and was handled the right way. I understand we all want something for nothing these days, but what if you made the mistake?
what if you gave a $100 bill to someone instead of a $10 bill.
-Do you want that person to keep quiet and keep your cash?
-Do you want that person to tell you that you made a mistake and have say you have given me too much money?
I bet you want the 2nd option because its the right thing and its your money. Admit the mistake and correct it. Thats what united did. The entitlement in the world is really scary. Everyone wants a handout!
its not enough that you can fly for "free" using miles now we demand using only 4 miles instead of the correct amount. THINK ABOUT IT
what if you gave a $100 bill to someone instead of a $10 bill.
-Do you want that person to keep quiet and keep your cash?
-Do you want that person to tell you that you made a mistake and have say you have given me too much money?
I bet you want the 2nd option because its the right thing and its your money. Admit the mistake and correct it. Thats what united did. The entitlement in the world is really scary. Everyone wants a handout!
its not enough that you can fly for "free" using miles now we demand using only 4 miles instead of the correct amount. THINK ABOUT IT
Jul 17, 2012, 10:35 am
#412
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: FSPP, Impresario, Prive, Virtuoso
Posts: 697
I think with every mistake fare we have two different responses.
Those who get in on the deal are adamant that the offer is accepted
And those who did not get in on the deal are like, there is no way this will stick. It has to be cancelled
The above is repeated every single time.
I myself did get in on the deal, and I certainly hope that the deal will be honored. And the more time it takes for them to cancel my ticket the more hopeful I get the tickets will be honored
Those who get in on the deal are adamant that the offer is accepted
And those who did not get in on the deal are like, there is no way this will stick. It has to be cancelled
The above is repeated every single time.
I myself did get in on the deal, and I certainly hope that the deal will be honored. And the more time it takes for them to cancel my ticket the more hopeful I get the tickets will be honored
Jul 17, 2012, 10:36 am
#413
Join Date: Feb 2011
Programs: Delta Gold Medallion
Posts: 449
United would take the $100 bill and then say that they have no record of this transaction in SHARES and you owe them $10. Seriously, all the ethics arguments are quite silly given that we are dealing with united.
Jul 17, 2012, 10:39 am
#414
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SAN
Programs: UA 1MM/1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 6,830
I think with every mistake fare we have two different responses.
Those who get in on the deal are adamant that the offer is accepted
And those who did not get in on the deal are like, there is no way this will stick. It has to be cancelled
The above is repeated every single time.
I myself did get in on the deal, and I certainly hope that the deal will be honored. And the more time it takes for them to cancel my ticket the more hopeful I get the tickets will be honored
Those who get in on the deal are adamant that the offer is accepted
And those who did not get in on the deal are like, there is no way this will stick. It has to be cancelled
The above is repeated every single time.
I myself did get in on the deal, and I certainly hope that the deal will be honored. And the more time it takes for them to cancel my ticket the more hopeful I get the tickets will be honored
Jul 17, 2012, 10:39 am
#415
Moderator, Omni, Omni/PR, Omni/Games, FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Between DCA and IAD
Programs: UA 1K MM; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 67,108
Had UA told pax who had already flown, "Sorry, you'll have to give us the correct mileage," there would be a big problem. Telling people who haven't traveled yet that they can cancel or pay the correct amount is more like Amazon figuring out the mistake with the TV before shipping it, and telling customers they can either pay the correct amount or cancel the order.
Jul 17, 2012, 10:42 am
#416
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: Hilton Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Sixt Diamond, Hertz PC, Bonvoy Gold, UA G
Posts: 596
Let's give United another round of applause for alienating customers. There's a reason I gave up all loyalty three years ago. They're a horrible airline, and they won't even give me a chance to see them redeem themselves.
Jul 17, 2012, 10:43 am
#417
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: AA LT Plat, UA 1k/1mm+, National EE, IC Plat, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 2,605
While I did not get in on this deal (or any other mistake deal ever), for me, there are several issues to be addressed:
1) There seem to be some who are demeaning those who took advantage of the deal for being morally corrupt. While I can see the thought process, I disagree for the most part. If I had been presented with the opportunity, I would have likely tried if for no other reason than out of sheer curiosity. At the end of the day, UA offered tickets at a certain "price" and the price was accepted by redeeming 4 miles/ticket plus taxes by some. Ticket numbers were issued. I think there is nothing immoral about getting in on this deal.
2) If I remember correctly, something to the tune of 60% of all those who got the deal learned of it from blogs. While I have no issue with folks booking this, I do have a problem with bloggers advertising it to huge crowds. For one thing, it has the potential to kill the deal for those who learned of it first, and can cause widespad economic damage to the airline. What is doubly pathetic is that the same folks who suck at the teets of the airlines and the industry as a whole are literally helping to ransack it. That act is morally objectionable in my opinion. There are some blogs I don't frequent for this very reason because they seem to not only help readers get the most out of legitimate offers and following them to maximize mileage earning, but in some cases, I believe they violate the spirit of the programs and I consider some of them to advocate very questionable behavior. I think in the long run, we would all be better off if certain bloggers stopped posting.
3) Now that tickets have been issued, the question of morality will have to take a back seat to the legal precedent it may set if UA gets away with canceling all award itins unilaterally. I personally think that it is important that UA does not get a green light to do so, because of they do, it could mean some pretty nasty incidents down the road with fliers having zero recourse to fight the airline. Even if you object to the moral validity of the award bookings, everyone should hope the deal stands as is for those who actually ticketed completely.
4) I read here that UA has invited this problem by putting its customers through a crucible for the past 4 months. It has been suggested that if such had not taken place, that the outcome may have been different...Let's not kid ourselves. The selfishness and entitlement on this board and among the readers of various blogs knows no bounds, and I am convinced that even if UA had not been a hot mess, the same number of awards would have been booked. The only difference is that folks might feel at least a little guilty whereas now, they gloat with Schadenfreude. And I have to admit that aft all the anti-consumer moves from UA, it feels like Karma is finally evident.
5) As far as the outcomes are concerned, I think it is perfectly reasonable for folks to notify the DOT I case UA attempts to annull the awards, but I think those who are threatening lawsuits and class action lawsuits ought to really reconsider their position. For one thing, those suits are time consuming and expensive, and if the DOT is not siding with the consumer, how likely is it that a judge would, especially given the known circumstances...and of course folks throwing this kind of verbiage around come across as entitled and opportunistic...not what it would take to find sympathy from others.
And the "senior" argument that has now been made twice is complete nonsense. The issues at hand are not any different for seniors than they are for anyone else who got in on the deal. Playing the card makes them look like insincere opportunists. How does that help them or the other folks in the deal?
For me, this entire thread is highly entertaining. Looking forward to seeing how it all gets resolved.
1) There seem to be some who are demeaning those who took advantage of the deal for being morally corrupt. While I can see the thought process, I disagree for the most part. If I had been presented with the opportunity, I would have likely tried if for no other reason than out of sheer curiosity. At the end of the day, UA offered tickets at a certain "price" and the price was accepted by redeeming 4 miles/ticket plus taxes by some. Ticket numbers were issued. I think there is nothing immoral about getting in on this deal.
2) If I remember correctly, something to the tune of 60% of all those who got the deal learned of it from blogs. While I have no issue with folks booking this, I do have a problem with bloggers advertising it to huge crowds. For one thing, it has the potential to kill the deal for those who learned of it first, and can cause widespad economic damage to the airline. What is doubly pathetic is that the same folks who suck at the teets of the airlines and the industry as a whole are literally helping to ransack it. That act is morally objectionable in my opinion. There are some blogs I don't frequent for this very reason because they seem to not only help readers get the most out of legitimate offers and following them to maximize mileage earning, but in some cases, I believe they violate the spirit of the programs and I consider some of them to advocate very questionable behavior. I think in the long run, we would all be better off if certain bloggers stopped posting.
3) Now that tickets have been issued, the question of morality will have to take a back seat to the legal precedent it may set if UA gets away with canceling all award itins unilaterally. I personally think that it is important that UA does not get a green light to do so, because of they do, it could mean some pretty nasty incidents down the road with fliers having zero recourse to fight the airline. Even if you object to the moral validity of the award bookings, everyone should hope the deal stands as is for those who actually ticketed completely.
4) I read here that UA has invited this problem by putting its customers through a crucible for the past 4 months. It has been suggested that if such had not taken place, that the outcome may have been different...Let's not kid ourselves. The selfishness and entitlement on this board and among the readers of various blogs knows no bounds, and I am convinced that even if UA had not been a hot mess, the same number of awards would have been booked. The only difference is that folks might feel at least a little guilty whereas now, they gloat with Schadenfreude. And I have to admit that aft all the anti-consumer moves from UA, it feels like Karma is finally evident.
5) As far as the outcomes are concerned, I think it is perfectly reasonable for folks to notify the DOT I case UA attempts to annull the awards, but I think those who are threatening lawsuits and class action lawsuits ought to really reconsider their position. For one thing, those suits are time consuming and expensive, and if the DOT is not siding with the consumer, how likely is it that a judge would, especially given the known circumstances...and of course folks throwing this kind of verbiage around come across as entitled and opportunistic...not what it would take to find sympathy from others.
And the "senior" argument that has now been made twice is complete nonsense. The issues at hand are not any different for seniors than they are for anyone else who got in on the deal. Playing the card makes them look like insincere opportunists. How does that help them or the other folks in the deal?
For me, this entire thread is highly entertaining. Looking forward to seeing how it all gets resolved.
Jul 17, 2012, 10:44 am
#418
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
I will give united two options:
a) Honor the tickets as issued.
b) cancel the tickets and credit me the total amount they claim they are worth. I got 4 business tickets so this means 480,000 miles. As a courtesy, I will not charge them cancellation fees nor report them to the DOT for cancelling issued tickets.
a) Honor the tickets as issued.
b) cancel the tickets and credit me the total amount they claim they are worth. I got 4 business tickets so this means 480,000 miles. As a courtesy, I will not charge them cancellation fees nor report them to the DOT for cancelling issued tickets.
I can understand demanding specific performance, but to assert that the true value of the tickets is 480,000 miles only undermines the plausibility of your stance.
Jul 17, 2012, 10:45 am
#419
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 184
FWIW, I'm no longer able to log into my MP account...
Jul 17, 2012, 10:46 am
#420
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: All of them...
Posts: 382
My reservation doesn't show up on united.com anymore, returns error page. nor can I log into all my MP accounts. Anyone else?
Last edited by chff; Jul 17, 2012 at 11:02 am