sfmaus

You received the answer to your question: The policy is to allow GPS operation above 10,000 feet unless the captain decides otherwise. You may not like that or consider it arbitrary, but that's the answer you got.

MarkXS

b) and c) are especially relevant. The Ops Manual (or whatever the exact thing is called comprised of all the airline's regulations down to the FA safety spiel verbiage) is incorporated int the FAA regulations as par tof the FARS. We've have pilots and FAs tell us all that repeatedly across FT.

Which means that, GPS allowed over 10,000 ft, is part of UA's regulations, which means GPS allowed over 10,000, is a FAR on UA flights.

Which means that the pilot in command deviated "from a rule under paragraph (b) of this section." AKA "making stuff up". Unless there was "an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action" to which the pilot was reacting by deviating from the UA-specific FAR that allows GPS above 10,000 ft. In which case the pilot in command is obligated to "upon the request of the Administrator, send a written report of that deviation to the Administrator."

Now I can think of lots of reasons why on a particular flight, a pilot in command might need to do this. Remember back to around the pre-liquid-bomb plot timeframe, where some (AA I think) pilots were banning pax from taking any phones, iPods, or any other electronics with them to the lav? Or around the time of the underwear bomb, where part of the intel was that the bomber wanted to be over a big city when he blew up the plane? There was a GPS ban and Airshow-type moving-map IFE ban for a while. But those were based on specific or at least general, time-frame-boxed, threats to aviation involving those devices (at least by DHS-logic.) A particularly RF-noisy GPS, or pax/crew complaints from an audio-noisy GPS would also be valid reasons to ban that particular passenger's GPS use on that particular flight.

But the PIC still can't just make stuff up without accountability. There are Federal Regulations that hold pilots accountable.

Yes, I do support the OP making a complaint, and suggest that it be made via the official DOT website, so that the PIC of his flight can explain his/her need to deviate from the UA FARs-in-force by the obligation to "send a written report of that deviation to the Administrator."

As long as we're quoting regs...

JATR4

I received the "supposed" answer from the captain well after the GPS had been turned off. I don't actually know that the FA contacted the captain. I rarely accept what someone says as gospel without seeing it in writing. There is a huge difference between GPS devices not being allowed on United flights (or United Express) and the captain's order that GPS devices aren't allowed on his flight.

I just want to know if it is airline policy--or just a whim of the crew.

gobluetwo

The response you received did not have the CSR's opinion. CSR did the following:
- Confirmed that the policy is in the Hemispheres and is as you stated.
- Confirmed that the safety video states that you need to comply with crew member instructions.
- Gave an analogy (which, ok, he could have done without)
- Confirmed again that you are required to comply with crew member instructions.

None of this was opinion. These might have been factual statements contrary to your point of view, but factual statements nonetheless.

Also, your response to the CSR was far more infantile than the message you received. Beyond the poor grammar and superfluous analogy, I thought the CSR's response was perfectly fine. In my opinion, of course.

valor155

So there are really 2 issues here:
1) Inadequate (or apathetic) response from a CSR, not to your satisfaction
2) What is the policy on GPS in-flight?

Again, as far as CSR, it'll go on forever with folks saying you got what you should have needed, but if you don't feel that way, then it isn't that way for you.

ONE QUESTION: If the GPS was on silent (which I personally greatly appreciate if I'm on that flight), how did they know you were using a GPS and not a cell phone, etc, just playing a game, etc?

Just curious. Almost everyone has an electronic device on in-flight these days. It isn't that I don't believe you, more than you must have had an eagle-eye FA to recognize a GPS out of the sea of electronics PAX would have been using.

JATR4

Pretty simple. I was using a Garmin NUVI 660. It doesn't look like a cell phone. I also had an iPad and a cell phone.

Again, I have used this same device on hundreds of flights with no problems.

jasp25

This is similar to what I experienced on a Skywest UAX flight. Above 10K I started playing a game on my handheld device and the FA told me that I should turn it off. Politely while disagreeing with her instruction I started powering off my device. She was stern with her instruction but I encouraged to read her manual regarding this... she turned around and took out a thick book which I assumed is her manual, flipped to a page, came back to me and expressed how embarrassed she was for asking me turn off my device. I guess that's what separates a good FA from the rest.. someone who's willing to admit when she's at fault.

blue47

not an sCO vs sUA issue. Both allowed the use of GPS


You have to hold it against the window for it to work. Pretty obvious.

ULMFlyer

Why didn't you ask the captain about it when you were getting off the plane?

If the FA had lied about asking, s/he could then be educated by the captain.

If the captain said s/he had indeed said no, you could have asked why. S/he could then have given you a reasonable reason - e.g. UAX's company policy - or s/he could have been mistaken about policy and then educated by you politely showing him/her the magazine.

Many more possible positive outcomes.

I was once told I couldn't use my QC15 in cruise while seated at an emergency exit on a COX ERJ. I knew it was BS, but some times there isn't much one can do other than roll with it.

FlyWorld

Agreed. Let's return our focus to the lack of upgrades. ;-)

JATR4

I started to but was trying to get to lunch at the Bull Ring in Santa Fe from Albuquerque. We got there just in time but parking in Santa Fe is hard to find on the street.

I did ask flight attendants on subsequent flights and they were surprised that I even asked.

I submitted my email at the suggestion of the flight attendant sitting in front of me on the flight to Albuquerque. She seemed knowledgeable. My original email would have been sent to Republic Express but when you get to their website and click on "contact us" you end up on the United site.

I submitted an identical email to Captain Mike Bowers (Ask the Pilot in the United magazine) but have had no response.

valor155

I guess I don't have as much experience with using a handheld GPS on a plane. I guess it is mandatory to press the GPS against the window to get a signal.

Anyway, the OP had a cell phone, an iPad, and a GPS out. Quick tip is to lose the GPS, and just use the GPS function of your cell phone. To me, that's pretty obvious. You'll never get bothered again (unless you have it on <10k feet, etc). This solves the problem completely for all future flights.

And, you won't have to contact CS again about this . . . another bonus.

JATR4

It is against the rules to use the GPS on your cell phone since the cell phone is a transmission device. The cell phone GPS will not work in airplane mode. Only GPS devices that cannot transmit are allowed.

I did not have my iPad or cell phone out--only the Garmin. And after initial contact with the satellites it can be used on the tray table--no need to continue to hold it to the window.

And there is much more information on the Garmin such as speed, altitude, distance to and from various locations, etc.

The question I asked was "What is the truth about GPS devices? Are they or are they not allowed above 10,000 feet? Is there a uniform United policy?"

That question was not answered, in my opinion, of course.

valor155

Ahh . . . yes . . . this makes sense because while the GPS antenna will work, cell phones usually download the route map from the internet, which would require a transmit function to send the request for the route data.

So were you using the GPS to follow your flight route?

It'd be nice if there was the in-seat monitor like on a lot of DL flights . . . one less device to pull out on a flight. And, you wouldn't have to glue your GPS to the window to get a signal.

That's my new solution to the situation. Tell UA to get those in-seat monitors in ASAP. And if they want to throw in some IFE too, that'd be solving a lot more gripes, too.

haddon90

next time go against what the captain/FA tells you and see where that leads you. you might have a nice chat with law enforcement.

the captain always has the final say, period.