Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
Feb 8, 2013, 11:04 pm
#1141
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,489
The incentive for UA to bring this type behavior to an end strengthens the probability that operational and financial results will improve as this awful mistake of UA is put behind them.
Most of us know that some people who are high achievers have a difficult time admitting that they make mistakes. Smisek and Rainey are high achievers. The mistakes of Smisek and Rainey have come back to haunt them. It is time for a reality check for the two of them.
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Most of us know that some people who are high achievers have a difficult time admitting that they make mistakes. Smisek and Rainey are high achievers. The mistakes of Smisek and Rainey have come back to haunt them. It is time for a reality check for the two of them.
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By definition, one does not need any proof for conjecture. 
Perhaps the sarcasm of the previous post was a bit too subtle - my point is that the cost for UA to settle this whole MM debacle is infinitesimally small. The class of people included in this lawsuit are a subset of MM flyers who have been largely alienated by UA. By offering to settle at this point, UA will give these alienated customers a reason to come back. Not all will, but for every one that does it's money in the bank for UA.
Perhaps the sarcasm of the previous post was a bit too subtle - my point is that the cost for UA to settle this whole MM debacle is infinitesimally small. The class of people included in this lawsuit are a subset of MM flyers who have been largely alienated by UA. By offering to settle at this point, UA will give these alienated customers a reason to come back. Not all will, but for every one that does it's money in the bank for UA.
Feb 8, 2013, 11:35 pm
#1142
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: @LAS
Programs: Concorde Connoisseur, ua 1mm
Posts: 152
Yes, and self-interest.
Exactly.
Especially the same attorney wouldn't even need much time to
(largely) clone the papers with a few modifications, potentially
even larger client pool, and a decent chance to win/settle.
If he wins suit #1 that is.
Especially the same attorney wouldn't even need much time to
(largely) clone the papers with a few modifications, potentially
even larger client pool, and a decent chance to win/settle.
If he wins suit #1 that is.
Feb 9, 2013, 12:07 am
#1143
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
Perhaps the sarcasm of the previous post was a bit too subtle - my point is that the cost for UA to settle this whole MM debacle is infinitesimally small. The class of people included in this lawsuit are a subset of MM flyers who have been largely alienated by UA. By offering to settle at this point, UA will give these alienated customers a reason to come back. Not all will, but for every one that does it's money in the bank for UA.
Now for UA to change the T&C to state that 'lifetime' may not really mean that? It's a disgrace to Smisek and his regime. Imagine during discovery to be able to go behind the scenes of the "over-entitled" comment. Of course there may not be anything behind it, but I highly doubt it. There seems to have been a clear plan to clean house of the elites except the 1Ks and GS (or just the GS?). By "clean house" I mean water down benefits.
Time will tell.
Like the Washington Post said:
But the Million Miler dustup is the most closely watched, not just among frequent travelers but also within the airline industry. Although incremental devaluations of frequent-flier programs aren’t unusual, this marks the first time that a major airline has made such dramatic downgrades for its most established customers. If United prevails in court, it will almost certainly embolden other airlines to take similar steps.
UG
Feb 9, 2013, 12:16 am
#1144
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
I was a 1K until 31 Jan and saw a marked decline in the number of complimentary domestic upgrades I was given and regional confirmed upgrades that were awarded. I was 1 for 4 on my last domestic flight upgrades.
Give me a break.
Now, as a Gold, I am certain I will almost never see a domestic upgrade.
I don't fly UA any more internationally. I avoid them domestically, but on some routes convenience and timing win out.
United did not just lose my business, they drove me away.
Feb 9, 2013, 6:44 am
#1145
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Maryland
Programs: UA MM Gold, Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 23,750
As one of the people who left, I agree that UA being forced to give back some promised benefits will not by itself cause me to return. On the other hand, imagine that it's two years from now and Smisek's replacement, as part of a campaign to rebuild loyalty, agrees to settle this thing. The newly-created marketing department sends me a nice package with:
-- The required settlement documents/coupons
-- A sincere-sounding letter of apology for their "mistake"
-- A brochure showing real improvements since I left
-- A 1K MM card (restoring my previous long-time status)
-- The required settlement documents/coupons
-- A sincere-sounding letter of apology for their "mistake"
-- A brochure showing real improvements since I left
-- A 1K MM card (restoring my previous long-time status)
This seems like a case of someone who wants to eat their cake and have it too.
Feb 9, 2013, 7:03 am
#1146
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,583
It's just GS.
I was a 1K until 31 Jan and saw a marked decline in the number of complimentary domestic upgrades I was given and regional confirmed upgrades that were awarded. I was 1 for 4 on my last domestic flight upgrades.
Give me a break.
Now, as a Gold, I am certain I will almost never see a domestic upgrade.
I don't fly UA any more internationally. I avoid them domestically, but on some routes convenience and timing win out.
United did not just lose my business, they drove me away.
I was a 1K until 31 Jan and saw a marked decline in the number of complimentary domestic upgrades I was given and regional confirmed upgrades that were awarded. I was 1 for 4 on my last domestic flight upgrades.
Give me a break.
Now, as a Gold, I am certain I will almost never see a domestic upgrade.
I don't fly UA any more internationally. I avoid them domestically, but on some routes convenience and timing win out.
United did not just lose my business, they drove me away.
Feb 9, 2013, 7:18 am
#1147
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DCA
Programs: UA Gold
Posts: 1,653
Feb 9, 2013, 10:39 am
#1148
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago
Programs: AA EXP, UA former 1K (1.9MM and gone), Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 1,111
Let me get this straight. You decided to fly another airline and no longer fly UA but you think "restoring" you to 1K is reasonable? If you are a MM on UA then per the MM program you are Gold. How is your expectation of 1K remotely reasonable?
This seems like a case of someone who wants to eat their cake and have it too.
This seems like a case of someone who wants to eat their cake and have it too.
Feb 9, 2013, 10:46 am
#1149
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
My point is that if I were in UA marketing (it's not clear to me that UA even has any real marketing people at the moment!), I'd recognize that long-time 1K members like me were driven away by UA's own mistakes. Rather than considering them to be disloyal deserters who need to earn their way back, as you apparently do, I'd want to quickly restore their previous loyalty. The best way to do that, IMHO, is to immediately return them to their former status and welcome them back.
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How's that for something inconsistent with the way the PMUA customers were treated?
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Feb 9, 2013, 10:47 am
#1150
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,489
Feb 9, 2013, 3:03 pm
#1151
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Maryland
Programs: UA MM Gold, Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 23,750
My point is that if I were in UA marketing (it's not clear to me that UA even has any real marketing people at the moment!), I'd recognize that long-time 1K members like me were driven away by UA's own mistakes. Rather than considering them to be disloyal deserters who need to earn their way back, as you apparently do, I'd want to quickly restore their previous loyalty. The best way to do that, IMHO, is to immediately return them to their former status and welcome them back.
Feb 9, 2013, 3:21 pm
#1152
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: @LAS
Programs: Concorde Connoisseur, ua 1mm
Posts: 152
Feb 9, 2013, 3:22 pm
#1153
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
I agree. So far, UA has moved on. The folks who keep bashing UA and at the same time say they won't fly them haven't moved on. Usually, they say they not only say they won't fly them - but wish ill will on them any chance they can. The UA forum has gotten so wacky with all the threads about not flying UA anymore but needing to chime in on every topic as if they do.
Feb 9, 2013, 3:35 pm
#1154
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: ABE
Programs: DL DM, IHG Spire, Mariott Platinum (UA SI) Avis First, National Executive
Posts: 764
I agree. So far, UA has moved on. The folks who keep bashing UA and at the same time say they won't fly them haven't moved on. Usually, they say they not only say they won't fly them - but wish ill will on them any chance they can. The UA forum has gotten so wacky with all the threads about not flying UA anymore but needing to chime in on every topic as if they do.
Feb 9, 2013, 3:37 pm
#1155
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Philadelphia, LAX, Paris
Programs: UA 1K/2MM, SPG/Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Lifetime HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, AA Exec Plat
Posts: 3,326
I agree. So far, UA has moved on. The folks who keep bashing UA and at the same time say they won't fly them haven't moved on. Usually, they say they not only say they won't fly them - but wish ill will on them any chance they can. The UA forum has gotten so wacky with all the threads about not flying UA anymore but needing to chime in on every topic as if they do.
This MM continues to fly UA
with 28K PQM so far in 2013