Last edit by: Ari
PLEASE READ FIRST: WIKIPOST and MODERATOR NOTE
MODERATOR NOTE:
Please note: Insensitive or attacking posts, discussion about other posters and their motives, and other off-topic posts/comments are not allowed, per FlyerTalk Rules.
--> If you have a question or comment about moderation, use the "Alert a Moderator" button left of every post, or send a PM. Do not post such comments/questions on-thread. Thank you.
N.B. Please do not alter the above message.
--> If you have a question or comment about moderation, use the "Alert a Moderator" button left of every post, or send a PM. Do not post such comments/questions on-thread. Thank you.
N.B. Please do not alter the above message.
• • • • •
[Please post NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]
Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
#856
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 515
Aha. Understood. I thought they counted toward MM status. In this case, there is no difference. If such paid EQM miles did qualify toward MM status, then I think you could reasonably argue that there was a contract in place. In exchange for money, you got certain fixed benefits. All moot.
#857
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
While it is great fun arguing legal issues with non-lawyers (not), naysayers here seem to think that "lifetime" means nothing. It does. You can't go around making such loose promises that customers rely on and then ignore them.
Secondly, a specific contractual term (e.g., lifetime benefits for Million Milers) overrides a general term found elsewhere ("we have the right to make changes when we want").
The case I cited stands for the basic premise that companies can be held liable for lifetime benefits, particularly in this case when there was a specific promise of lifetime benefits.
Secondly, a specific contractual term (e.g., lifetime benefits for Million Milers) overrides a general term found elsewhere ("we have the right to make changes when we want").
The case I cited stands for the basic premise that companies can be held liable for lifetime benefits, particularly in this case when there was a specific promise of lifetime benefits.
#858
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
While it is great fun arguing legal issues with non-lawyers (not), naysayers here seem to think that "lifetime" means nothing. It does. You can't go around making such loose promises that customers rely on and then ignore them.
Secondly, a specific contractual term (e.g., lifetime benefits for Million Milers) overrides a general term found elsewhere ("we have the right to make changes when we want").
The case I cited stands for the basic premise that companies can be held liable for lifetime benefits, particularly in this case when there was a specific promise of lifetime benefits.
Secondly, a specific contractual term (e.g., lifetime benefits for Million Milers) overrides a general term found elsewhere ("we have the right to make changes when we want").
The case I cited stands for the basic premise that companies can be held liable for lifetime benefits, particularly in this case when there was a specific promise of lifetime benefits.
There is no specific term guaranteeing specific benefits.
#859
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Frozen in Carbonite
Programs: UA Aluminum 0.6MM, Bonvoy Life Sentence, Hyatt Eliteist, AA Super Plutonium
Posts: 2,878
#860
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
#861
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1P-1MM, Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 3,930
While the debate on this thread is interesting, is there any actual movement on the lawsuit?
#862
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PDX
Programs: UA Global Services / Million Miler, Marriott Ambassador / Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 594
Hogwash. Many, many times in this and the other MM thread people have posted the exact direct communication(s) from United that say not only that lifetime benefits will be granted, but what they will be - including 2 RPUs annually, 3 GPUs at the time of crossing, and a specific listing of and emphasis on the *benefits* associated with 1P, not just "50K level for life". Just because you may not like or believe what those communications say does not mean the communications don't exist.
#863
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near SEA
Programs: UA MM, AS MVPG75K, Marriott Lifetime Gold
Posts: 7,969
Hogwash. Many, many times in this and the other MM thread people have posted the exact direct communication(s) from United that say not only that lifetime benefits will be granted, but what they will be - including 2 RPUs annually, 3 GPUs at the time of crossing, and a specific listing of and emphasis on the *benefits* associated with 1P, not just "50K level for life". Just because you may not like or believe what those communications say does not mean the communications don't exist.
#864
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
Hogwash. Many, many times in this and the other MM thread people have posted the exact direct communication(s) from United that say not only that lifetime benefits will be granted, but what they will be - including 2 RPUs annually, 3 GPUs at the time of crossing, and a specific listing of and emphasis on the *benefits* associated with 1P, not just "50K level for life". Just because you may not like or believe what those communications say does not mean the communications don't exist.
Also, the method in which is was communicated was outside of the official methods of communication, so it wasn't to be relied on anyways.
Nope. Still waiting on the judge to rule on the 12(b) motion to dismiss.
#865
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PDX
Programs: UA Global Services / Million Miler, Marriott Ambassador / Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 594
Not the point - who said we're not getting benefits still? Of course I don't like them, because they are categorically not anywhere near the realm of what was promised, exact or otherwise. Specific benefits were communicated and promised, for life, then broken. Not sure how that is debatable. It's written plain as day.
#866
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
Not the point - who said we're not getting benefits still? Of course I don't like them, because they are categorically not anywhere near the realm of what was promised, exact or otherwise. Specific benefits were communicated and promised, for life, then broken. Not sure how that is debatable. It's written plain as day.
#868
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
Yes if you were willing to pay between $100,000 and $170,000. people on this forum consistently overestimate the amount of EQMS issued through the presidental plus card and through the boosters.
#870
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
Personally I feel that the loss of all EQMs counting is the biggest hit to the program, especially when UA gets paid to issue them a lot of the time.