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United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

Old May 23, 12, 12:28 pm
  #1036  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
The above post is speaking to itself.



It won't this year.



If only the above were relevant, but it isn't relevant to this thread. The objective conclusion I've communicated about UA failing 1ks goes well beyond being merely derived from one individual's experiences.



Familiar with "short-term gains costing long-term returns" and with the limited returns from simple open short positions? Those with a true clue about finance and the operations of public companies wouldn't suggest what was suggested in the above post absent some hedging.



Can COdbaUA really afford much of a decline in revenue without ending up in bankruptcy yet again? Don't confuse pursuing an increase in revenue with a decline in revenue.

Capacity can be cut in some ways without corresponding revenue declines, and that's more of what COdbaUA seeks than what LarkSFO's post is trying to suggest.
I understand you have your opinions and your own personal experiences.

Please do not try and tell others that your experience is universal and that everyone should be dissatisfied with UA because of your personal experience. That does a disservice to anyone who may read (and give any credibility to) your opinion.

How can you in any way, shape, or form say that your comments are 'objective'? I would need some more background from you and understanding of how you believe you are in a position to make objective statements about what 'every elite' is experiencing on United since the merger.

Last edited by LarkSFO; May 23, 12 at 12:39 pm
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Old May 23, 12, 12:30 pm
  #1037  
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Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr View Post
But the same can be said for how many UA elites will STICK with a move to AA. After a few rides on an MD80 and a few times in E w no E+ I would head back to the devil I know
Considering that none of the new EXPs are likely to ever walk past row 6, I'll go out on a limb and say virtually none.
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Old May 23, 12, 12:32 pm
  #1038  
 
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Originally Posted by JBEagle1000G View Post
IDK about that.
Main Cabin ExtrAA is coming.
Then I would tell AA to call me when it's on 51% of the fleet. What any airline is doing NEXT YEAR does not do anything for me THIS year

Just took flight on EK Sunday DXB-JFK W WiFi coverage over 90% of the 15 hours. It was great. UA says they are starting to put wifi on more planes but what does that do for me next week when I have a UA flight
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Old May 23, 12, 12:41 pm
  #1039  
 
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Originally Posted by SFO777 View Post
Considering that none of the new EXPs are likely to ever walk past row 6, I'll go out on a limb and say virtually none.
I don't buy that upgrades are THAT much easier on AA. I know I have stated a few times that upgrades are NOT my complaint w UA. When I said this and posted I am now 28/29 on UA A LOT of 1Ks came out of the wood work to say they too, have had little or no problems with upgrades. In a nutshell, most of us are angry about something but we are not all angry about upgrades

The fact AAs SWUs can be used on any fare and UAs require a W fare or above Kind of gets me angry, yet that's the way it's been for years and years w UA and up till now many of us were ok with that.
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Old May 23, 12, 12:45 pm
  #1040  
 
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Originally Posted by LarkSFO View Post
I would need some more background from you and understanding of how you believe you are in a position to make objective statements about what 'every elite' is experiencing on United since the merger.
Remember what the Tobacco lobby used to say about smoking and cancer?

“The claim that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer has not been scientifically proven………..it is a reductionist error and not keeping with the current theories of cancer causation to attempt to assign each cancer to an exclusive single cause…………the use of results from flawed population studies to frighten people by attributing large numbers of death yearly to smoking may be misleading and is most regrettable……….that emotionalism can override objective analysis is illustrated by the headlines………despite millions of dollars spent by the government on smoking and health-related research, many questions about the relationship between smoking and disease remain unanswered…………indeed, many scientists are becoming concerned that preoccupation with smoking may be both unfounded and dangerous – unfounded because evidence on many critical points is conflicting, dangerous because it diverts attention from other suspected hazards.”

-from Smoking and Health: 1964-1979: The Continuing Controversy, published in 1979 by the Tobacco Institute
...another, unrelated example of a "Denial Lobby"
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Old May 23, 12, 12:46 pm
  #1041  
 
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Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr View Post
I don't buy that upgrades are THAT much easier on AA.
I don't know what to say other than they usually are. AA has historically had the best upgrade rates for top tiers. I have missed one ever.
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Old May 23, 12, 12:51 pm
  #1042  
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Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr View Post
I don't buy that upgrades are THAT much easier on AA. I know I have stated a few times that upgrades are NOT my complaint w UA. When I said this and posted I am now 28/29 on UA A LOT of 1Ks came out of the wood work to say they too, have had little or no problems with upgrades. In a nutshell, most of us are angry about something but we are not all angry about upgrades.
I wasn't commenting on upgrade rates, rather countering that as EXPs, newly status matched UA elites are unlikely to even see E on AA as you seemed to suggest.
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Old May 23, 12, 12:52 pm
  #1043  
 
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Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr View Post
The fact AAs SWUs can be used on any fare and UAs require a W fare or above Kind of gets me angry, yet that's the way it's been for years and years w UA and up till now many of us were ok with that.
I haven't been "ok" with it for several years but I put up with it because I looked at the whole package of benefits.

I'm posting this from Australia on our way to Oz Fest, where the upgradable fares have gone up and up. I've never been a fan of buying lottery tickets, which is what those W-and-up fares are now. We also found out that this was probably the last time UA will arrange our Australian visa for free. A number of issues big and small start to add up.

UA broke what IMHO were promises about its Million Mile benefits and a top UA executive makes "over-entitled" pronouncements.

I may be dumb but I ain't stupid and I'm starting to get the picture.
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Old May 23, 12, 12:56 pm
  #1044  
 
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Because I also feel that things have changed, for me, for the worse, I have been reading other forums a bunch. I still come to the same conclusion, the grass isn't greener, it's just different grass.

Like a co-worker who changes jobs, and tells you how great the new job is, once the honeymoon is over, you still have to mow the lawn.
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Old May 23, 12, 12:56 pm
  #1045  
 
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Originally Posted by exerda View Post
I recall when I last flew US frequently (basically before PMUA eliminated the 500-mile minimums on US), no one seemed to like US much at all. And they did a lot of what UA is trying to do now: TOD upgrades (though US hawked them aggressively at the gate), nickel-and-diming for basic amenities in Y, pushing credit card sales throughout the flight, etc. Being able to buy up to F on the cheap didn't endear US to Ma or Pa Kettle from what I could tell; the horrid CS, call center, and inflight experiences did drive those pax away in droves, though.
hah i do a lot of NYC-DCA travel for work so i used to love riding the US air shuttle. it's convenient and runs every hour on an A319, it was great. and as a CO PLT getting the 500 mins on that flight, it was pretty nice. and yes, i used to pick up the 40 dollar upgrade fee to F a lot.

now i'm stuck taking the regional jets from IAD-NYC and it's a pretty miserable leg. i might just start taking the shuttle again and stick them on my empty OZ account or something. at least 40K there in 2 years will get me free UC access domestically...
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Old May 23, 12, 1:09 pm
  #1046  
 
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Originally Posted by c502cid View Post
Because I also feel that things have changed, for me, for the worse, I have been reading other forums a bunch. I still come to the same conclusion, the grass isn't greener, it's just different grass...
It depends on the fertilizer being used.
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Old May 23, 12, 1:15 pm
  #1047  
 
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Originally Posted by Fredd View Post
It depends on the fertilizer being used.
LOL, great response!
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Old May 23, 12, 1:20 pm
  #1048  
 
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Originally Posted by Fredd View Post
I haven't been "ok" with it for several years but I put up with it because I looked at the whole package of benefits.

I'm posting this from Australia on our way to Oz Fest, where the upgradable fares have gone up and up. I've never been a fan of buying lottery tickets, which is what those W-and-up fares are now. We also found out that this was probably the last time UA will arrange our Australian visa for free. A number of issues big and small start to add up.

UA broke what IMHO were promises about its Million Mile benefits and a top UA executive makes "over-entitled" pronouncements.

I may be dumb but I ain't stupid and I'm starting to get the picture.
I agree...plus the W lottery tickets don't win as much anymore. Pre-merger I was around 90% now it is closer to 60%. If they are not going to clear almost all of the time then the fare restriction needs to be removed. They would clear by fare bucket anyway so high volume routes/days would likely require W+ anyway and why do they care if an S ticket gets an upgrade to a seat that would have been empty anyway?
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Old May 23, 12, 1:21 pm
  #1049  
 
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Originally Posted by c502cid View Post
...Well up to a few months ago, most of us 1K/GS/BIS-MM were pretty ok with what we had. However, the rest of the plane was not. Think about how many people you know, people that fly limited amounts, even Kettles (we can admit we know Kettles on FT?), that loathed United. Unless it was one of us, everyone hated United.

So maybe the management is going after this crowd. Part of the .....ing, and I'm sure that this isn't just for United, was everyone in back resented all of us getting perks. I do think this is a misguided attempt by COdbaUA to win that crowd, and get that market share from other carriers...
Everything you said seems to fit in my view. If they had the integrity to just tell us, rather than lying and trying to make us believe something else, I could respect it.
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Old May 23, 12, 1:21 pm
  #1050  
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Originally Posted by LarkSFO View Post
I understand you have your opinions and your own personal experiences.
I have more than that, even as I understand you have your opinions and your own personal experiences.

Originally Posted by LarkSFO View Post
Please do not try and tell others that your experience is universal and that everyone should be dissatisfied with UA because of your personal experience.
A recommendation without applicability, as nowhere have I done what you suggest above.

Originally Posted by LarkSFO View Post
That does a disservice to anyone who may read (and give any credibility to) your opinion.
It may, if only there was any merit in your post's suggestion in your sentence prior to the above one.

Originally Posted by LarkSFO
How can you in any way, shape, or form say that your comments are 'objective'? I would need some more background from you and understanding of how you believe you are in a position to make objective statements about what 'every elite' is experiencing on United since the merger.
Nowhere have I claimed anything about the experiences of "every elite" being monolithic in nature. When false suggestion, as in your post above, is the basis of the entire paragraph above or of a position, that seems to indicate poor position to acknowledge in public what is objective and not. No surprise that there is going to have to be agreement to disagree, when those who doubt objectivity are not interested in objectivity and transparency as much as interested in some sort of defense effort of the status quo.

Last edited by GUWonder; May 23, 12 at 1:27 pm
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