United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".
#946
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: AAdvantage, MileagePlus(ick)
Posts: 296
But there is a lot of money no longer going United's way, so I have to imagine there will be SOME sort of impact, but not the landslide many talk of [or hope for].
With that said, in the company's current climate, they're not doing their name any justice, and will likely capture customers on "market share" alone, because out of many areas, they ARE still the largest, most frequent and sometimes cheapest.
But NO longer one of the best.
#947
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,284
R seats on long hauls are harder then ever to get, we all agree on that. That means SOMEONE Zis in those seats! Full fare? Probably not but even if there are 10 GM's sitting there using miles and $$, taking the place of 1Ks and GS with upgrades, that flight will have made more revenue.
Like I said before, UA is ripping up the sofa cushions looking for nickels and dimes while ignoring the cash sitting out on the coffee table.
#948
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,228
I agree that UA won't experience a "huge" drop in revenues directly attributable to the changes to the MP program. UA may still be #1 in passenger count when the dust settles, but it will most likely never be the airline that pmUA and pmCO were when it comes to producing a pleasant customer experience.
#949
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,165
We know the top/bottom lines aren't going to drop by 50% YOY or anything like that. However, another half a billion $ loss wouldn't look so hot, nor would quarterly performance that greatly trailed all the other majors. Just have to hope a lot of the other metrics don't show improvement over Q1 either.
#950
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Metro NYC
Programs: MP 1K, Air Canada Elite, Avis First, Marriott Gold
Posts: 7
I agree that UA won't experience a "huge" drop in revenues directly attributable to the changes to the MP program. UA may still be #1 in passenger count when the dust settles, but it will most likely never be the airline that pmUA and pmCO were when it comes to producing a pleasant customer experience.
#951
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
The dedicated 1k channels of communication are more or less gone for many 1ks -- no matter how characterized, the 1k channel of communication is nothing like what they used to be at this time last year -- they are a shell of their former self and the notion of it being "dedicated" is rather gone despite the apologetic lines being tossed about to try to defend COdbaUA.
The 1k priority boarding is also no longer handled in the manner it used to be and is also worse than it was at this time last year.
UA is also failing 1ks on companion upgrades in a way now that was not the case even earlier this year -- it is worse now than it was for most of the 1st quarter of this year.
UA is routinely failing to be as good for 1ks this year as UA was at this time last year for 1ks, and that undoing of 1k service has manifested itself with check-in handling, security line processing, boarding practices, call/email handling, and upgrade handling (including upgrade handling for companions).
No amount of pro-COdbaUA spin is going to disappear the history of COdbaUA failing 1ks now in a way that was not the case at this time last year.
The 1k priority boarding is also no longer handled in the manner it used to be and is also worse than it was at this time last year.
UA is also failing 1ks on companion upgrades in a way now that was not the case even earlier this year -- it is worse now than it was for most of the 1st quarter of this year.
UA is routinely failing to be as good for 1ks this year as UA was at this time last year for 1ks, and that undoing of 1k service has manifested itself with check-in handling, security line processing, boarding practices, call/email handling, and upgrade handling (including upgrade handling for companions).
No amount of pro-COdbaUA spin is going to disappear the history of COdbaUA failing 1ks now in a way that was not the case at this time last year.
Please, you are doing a disservice to the FT community and the random few others who may stumble in here.
If YOUR experience is worse than last year, I'll buy that and continue to hope it gets better for you.
But please don't take your experience and try and extrapolate that to the experience of all UA elites.
The new United does not want to chase market share and revenue.
They want to be a profitable, viable airline and are making the changes required to achieve this objective.
#952
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,284
Without a doubt, ancillaries will show an improvement. But selling more unbundled goods to lower-priced ticket buyers isn't going to do anything positive overall when the numbers are added up to reach the bottom line, if the total bundled fare isn't higher. The CFO was mysteriously quiet about that segment of things in his presentationnotice he never said that ancillaries increased 'without damaging our other metrics'. There's quite a wide valley between a G-fare + ancillaries and an inclusive B or M-fare.
#953
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver DEN-APA
Programs: AF Platinum, EK Gold, LH Senator *Gold, AA EXP OWE Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 21,555
It may take a while for the full impact to be felt, but exactly who is going to fill all those TATL/TPAC seats? An awful lot of UA elites paid higher fares and put up with a already crap product and service in order to maintain status. Take away the 1K perks and why would anyone fly UA TATL/TPAC when most of the competition provides a much better experience at the same or even lower price?
#954
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IAD
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Rewards - LTPP
Posts: 4,240
The funny thing about fares the airline industry, especially in today's economic climate, is very price elastic. If all the airlines raise fares, UA will likely follow suit. As the economy slowly continues to increase, fares will rise. Face it folks, airline loyalty programs are slowly declining. The LCCs have enhanced their product, the legacies have cut theirs, slowly moving everyone to the middle. As businesses negotiate corporate contracts with the LCCs and better rates on the legacies, business travelers have less say and choice in steering business one way or another. Likewise, kettles and other price conscious leisure travelers are picking based on price because they can buy all the ancillary products (elite checkin/security/boarding and premium seats) without being elite. The game has changed. The loyalty programs of the 90s are GONE.
#955
Join Date: Apr 2004
Programs: UA 1K 3.01MM Hyatt Globalist (Lifetime) AA ExPlat (real), Lifetime UniClub (not from the 2MM).
Posts: 173
So let me get this straight - after 25 years I finally achieve 1K status only to find that in 2012:
(1) The dedicated 1K line is gone and I now get agents in Manila or (shudder) ICC
(1) The dedicated 1K line is gone and I now get agents in Manila or (shudder) ICC
Not correct: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18590679-post69.html
(2) The dedicated 1K checkin line is gone
(5) Companion upgrades are pretty much shot unless you can clear them with a RPU/SWU - and your record may well get involuntarily split, relegating your companion to E- purgatory or worse
Fixed it for you.
#956
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: body: A stone's throw from SFO, mind: SE Asia
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Posts: 17,263
Time will tell. I'm hoping you're wrong.
#957
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IAD
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Rewards - LTPP
Posts: 4,240
United's boarding process left the Red Carpet for 1K/GS/F exclusively. That meant that I could walk up at anytime after the 1K/GS/F passengers were called and not have to wait to board. With Continental's process all over-entitlted elites board on the blue carpet, meaning that there is no clear lane for me when I arrive late.
#958
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,165
Nope - they may put the rope across it once they started Y/lower elite boarding, but you were always welcome to walk the red carpet even if late and they'd re-open it for you.
#959
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
So let me get this straight - after 25 years I finally achieve 1K status only to find that in 2012:
(1) The dedicated 1K line is gone and I now get agents in Manila or (shudder) ICC
(2) The dedicated 1K checkin line is gone
(3) The dedicated 1K security checkpoint is gone (at least at SFO)
(4) Priority 1K boarding is gone
(5) Companion upgrades are pretty much shot unless you can clear them with a RPU/SWU - and your record may well get involuntarily split, relegating your companion to E- purgatory or worse
I gotta be frank - I sure don't feel overentitled now that I'm getting the same treatment that I received in my many years at the 1P and 2P level. Maybe Jeff can remind me again why I should strive for 1K, as opposed to an airline that will provide real benefits for flying 100k BIS annually in paid C?
Because at this point I am ready to direct all my business class travel to the competition, where the staff doesn't complain about having to treat me nicely.
(1) The dedicated 1K line is gone and I now get agents in Manila or (shudder) ICC
(2) The dedicated 1K checkin line is gone
(3) The dedicated 1K security checkpoint is gone (at least at SFO)
(4) Priority 1K boarding is gone
(5) Companion upgrades are pretty much shot unless you can clear them with a RPU/SWU - and your record may well get involuntarily split, relegating your companion to E- purgatory or worse
I gotta be frank - I sure don't feel overentitled now that I'm getting the same treatment that I received in my many years at the 1P and 2P level. Maybe Jeff can remind me again why I should strive for 1K, as opposed to an airline that will provide real benefits for flying 100k BIS annually in paid C?
Because at this point I am ready to direct all my business class travel to the competition, where the staff doesn't complain about having to treat me nicely.
Well if you are a Million Miler all the above are chicken feed to what they have lost.
United is headed for Chapter 11 within the next 12 months.
Last edited by ozstamps; May 23, 2012 at 7:42 am
#960
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,228
63,000 posts and then this?
Please, you are doing a disservice to the FT community and the random few others who may stumble in here.
If YOUR experience is worse than last year, I'll buy that and continue to hope it gets better for you.
But please don't take your experience and try and extrapolate that to the experience of all UA elites.
Please, you are doing a disservice to the FT community and the random few others who may stumble in here.
If YOUR experience is worse than last year, I'll buy that and continue to hope it gets better for you.
But please don't take your experience and try and extrapolate that to the experience of all UA elites.
Yes, United needs to be profitable. Apparently, they have decided that selling upgrades and shoving frequent travelers to the side is the way to get there. I disagree.
TLikewise, kettles and other price conscious leisure travelers are picking based on price because they can buy all the ancillary products (elite checkin/security/boarding and premium seats) without being elite. The game has changed. The loyalty programs of the 90s are GONE.
Last edited by halls120; May 23, 2012 at 7:45 am