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United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

Old May 23, 2012, 7:01 am
  #946  
 
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Originally Posted by njcommodore
Anyone who thinks UA will have a huge drop in revenue over changes to MP isn't over entitled, they're delusional (or self absorbed).
I partially agree, as a realist, there's going to be a likely gradual decline in revenue.
But there is a lot of money no longer going United's way, so I have to imagine there will be SOME sort of impact, but not the landslide many talk of [or hope for].

With that said, in the company's current climate, they're not doing their name any justice, and will likely capture customers on "market share" alone, because out of many areas, they ARE still the largest, most frequent and sometimes cheapest.
But NO longer one of the best.
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:03 am
  #947  
 
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Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr
R seats on long hauls are harder then ever to get, we all agree on that. That means SOMEONE Zis in those seats! Full fare? Probably not but even if there are 10 GM's sitting there using miles and $$, taking the place of 1Ks and GS with upgrades, that flight will have made more revenue.
You're assuming that the GMs are booking at as high of a rate as GS's are, an assumption I find a bit far-fetched. Sure, you can upgrade all the Kayakers you want flying at the lowest possible fare. But will they replace the same number of 1Ks and GS' at a higher rate? Doubtful. Really doubtful.

Like I said before, UA is ripping up the sofa cushions looking for nickels and dimes while ignoring the cash sitting out on the coffee table.
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:05 am
  #948  
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Originally Posted by njcommodore
Anyone who thinks UA will have a huge drop in revenue over changes to MP isn't over entitled, they're delusional (or self absorbed).
I agree that UA won't experience a "huge" drop in revenues directly attributable to the changes to the MP program. UA may still be #1 in passenger count when the dust settles, but it will most likely never be the airline that pmUA and pmCO were when it comes to producing a pleasant customer experience.
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:07 am
  #949  
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Originally Posted by JBEagle1000G
I partially agree, as a realist, there's going to be a likely gradual decline in revenue.
But there is a lot of money no longer going United's way, so I have to imagine there will be SOME sort of impact, but not the landslide many talk of [or hope for].
We know the top/bottom lines aren't going to drop by 50% YOY or anything like that. However, another half a billion $ loss wouldn't look so hot, nor would quarterly performance that greatly trailed all the other majors. Just have to hope a lot of the other metrics don't show improvement over Q1 either.
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:11 am
  #950  
 
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Originally Posted by halls120
I agree that UA won't experience a "huge" drop in revenues directly attributable to the changes to the MP program. UA may still be #1 in passenger count when the dust settles, but it will most likely never be the airline that pmUA and pmCO were when it comes to producing a pleasant customer experience.
I disagree. Virtually all of my UA flights are 20-25% more expensive than the competition. This is a price I gladly pay for the perks as a 1K. Take the perks away, and I'm gone. All it will do is force UA to lower their fares!
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:22 am
  #951  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
The dedicated 1k channels of communication are more or less gone for many 1ks -- no matter how characterized, the 1k channel of communication is nothing like what they used to be at this time last year -- they are a shell of their former self and the notion of it being "dedicated" is rather gone despite the apologetic lines being tossed about to try to defend COdbaUA.

The 1k priority boarding is also no longer handled in the manner it used to be and is also worse than it was at this time last year.

UA is also failing 1ks on companion upgrades in a way now that was not the case even earlier this year -- it is worse now than it was for most of the 1st quarter of this year.

UA is routinely failing to be as good for 1ks this year as UA was at this time last year for 1ks, and that undoing of 1k service has manifested itself with check-in handling, security line processing, boarding practices, call/email handling, and upgrade handling (including upgrade handling for companions).

No amount of pro-COdbaUA spin is going to disappear the history of COdbaUA failing 1ks now in a way that was not the case at this time last year.
63,000 posts and then this?

Please, you are doing a disservice to the FT community and the random few others who may stumble in here.

If YOUR experience is worse than last year, I'll buy that and continue to hope it gets better for you.

But please don't take your experience and try and extrapolate that to the experience of all UA elites.

Originally Posted by njcommodore
Anyone who thinks UA will have a huge drop in revenue over changes to MP isn't over entitled, they're delusional (or self absorbed).
Sell the stock short today then. Let us know how much money you make when they announce next quarters results.

Originally Posted by JBEagle1000G
I partially agree, as a realist, there's going to be a likely gradual decline in revenue.
Per Mr. Rainey's comments, I believe a gradual decline in revenue is a part of their plan. Capacity has gone down 6% since 2006. China market currently has 'too much capacity', and we should expect to see reductions.

The new United does not want to chase market share and revenue.

They want to be a profitable, viable airline and are making the changes required to achieve this objective.
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:22 am
  #952  
 
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC
Just have to hope a lot of the other metrics don't show improvement over Q1 either.
Without a doubt, ancillaries will show an improvement. But selling more unbundled goods to lower-priced ticket buyers isn't going to do anything positive overall when the numbers are added up to reach the bottom line, if the total bundled fare isn't higher. The CFO was mysteriously quiet about that segment of things in his presentationnotice he never said that ancillaries increased 'without damaging our other metrics'. There's quite a wide valley between a G-fare + ancillaries and an inclusive B or M-fare.
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:24 am
  #953  
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Originally Posted by kungfuflyer
I disagree. Virtually all of my UA flights are 20-25% more expensive than the competition. This is a price I gladly pay for the perks as a 1K. Take the perks away, and I'm gone. All it will do is force UA to lower their fares!
It may take a while for the full impact to be felt, but exactly who is going to fill all those TATL/TPAC seats? An awful lot of UA elites paid higher fares and put up with a already crap product and service in order to maintain status. Take away the 1K perks and why would anyone fly UA TATL/TPAC when most of the competition provides a much better experience at the same or even lower price?
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:26 am
  #954  
 
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Originally Posted by kungfuflyer
I disagree. Virtually all of my UA flights are 20-25% more expensive than the competition. This is a price I gladly pay for the perks as a 1K. Take the perks away, and I'm gone. All it will do is force UA to lower their fares!
The funny thing about fares the airline industry, especially in today's economic climate, is very price elastic. If all the airlines raise fares, UA will likely follow suit. As the economy slowly continues to increase, fares will rise. Face it folks, airline loyalty programs are slowly declining. The LCCs have enhanced their product, the legacies have cut theirs, slowly moving everyone to the middle. As businesses negotiate corporate contracts with the LCCs and better rates on the legacies, business travelers have less say and choice in steering business one way or another. Likewise, kettles and other price conscious leisure travelers are picking based on price because they can buy all the ancillary products (elite checkin/security/boarding and premium seats) without being elite. The game has changed. The loyalty programs of the 90s are GONE.
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:29 am
  #955  
 
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Originally Posted by Boraxo
So let me get this straight - after 25 years I finally achieve 1K status only to find that in 2012:

(1) The dedicated 1K line is gone and I now get agents in Manila or (shudder) ICC

Originally Posted by star_world
Actually, completely correct. While it may be the case that my hold time as a 1K is shorter, I am no longer getting a dedicated 1K agent. Since the transition, I routinely get overseas agents, and others who have nowhere near the skills or autonomy that 1K agents had.

Originally Posted by Boraxo
(2) The dedicated 1K checkin line is gone

Originally Posted by star_world
Not correct. At the majority of airports with a big UA presence I've flown out of in the last month (ORD, EWR, FRA, LHR) there is a Premier Access queue for Silver / Gold members, a separate one for Plat / 1K / BF and a further one for GS / GF. Isn't this sufficient?
While you say it is not correct, your own statement says it is. Premier Platinum are not 1Ks. At many airports, Premier Gold, Premier Platinum and 1Ks all queue together. So, answering your question, no it is not sufficient.

Originally Posted by Boraxo
(3) The dedicated 1K security checkpoint is gone (at least at SFO)


Originally Posted by star_world
Some of them do seem to be gone, but the signage that is being put up in many of the US hubs is in line with the split for checkin above - Plat / 1K / BF will be treated separately.
So again, based on your own statements, correct.

Originally Posted by Boraxo
(4) Priority 1K boarding is gone

Originally Posted by star_world
No it's not. That's what Group 1 is for (along with C / F)
United's boarding process left the Red Carpet for 1K/GS/F exclusively. That meant that I could walk up at anytime after the 1K/GS/F passengers were called and not have to wait to board. With Continental's process all over-entitlted elites board on the blue carpet, meaning that there is no clear lane for me when I arrive late.

Originally Posted by Boraxo
(5) Companion upgrades are pretty much shot unless you can clear them with a RPU/SWU - and your record may well get involuntarily split, relegating your companion to E- purgatory or worse

Originally Posted by star_world
Not if they are handled correctly. I agree that the process is a mess, but it's certainly possible for companion upgrades to work correctly even with the current implementation if the agents know what they're doing.
So at best, sometimes they can still be made to work, but it is not a given. When they do not work, they can create other disastrous consequences (e.g. E- for companions).

Originally Posted by star_world
There are plenty of things to be frustrated about with UA including what you list above, as you can see.
Fixed it for you.
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:32 am
  #956  
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Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_1_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B206 Safari/7534.48.3)



I believe the exact quote is, "it's just a scratch".
Tis a flesh wound.

Originally Posted by njcommodore
Anyone who thinks UA will have a huge drop in revenue over changes to MP isn't over entitled, they're delusional (or self absorbed).
Time will tell. I'm hoping you're wrong.
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:33 am
  #957  
 
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Originally Posted by majortom


United's boarding process left the Red Carpet for 1K/GS/F exclusively. That meant that I could walk up at anytime after the 1K/GS/F passengers were called and not have to wait to board. With Continental's process all over-entitlted elites board on the blue carpet, meaning that there is no clear lane for me when I arrive late.
Didn't UA close the red carpet after the initial 1K/GS/F boarding? CO left the blue carpet open during all of boarding, allowing elites to board whenever we chose. I'll take 10-15 more minutes in the club over being forced to get there early.
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:35 am
  #958  
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Originally Posted by njcommodore
Didn't UA close the red carpet after the initial 1K/GS/F boarding? CO left the blue carpet open during all of boarding, allowing elites to board whenever we chose. I'll take 10-15 more minutes in the club over being forced to get there early.
Nope - they may put the rope across it once they started Y/lower elite boarding, but you were always welcome to walk the red carpet even if late and they'd re-open it for you.
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:35 am
  #959  
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Originally Posted by Boraxo
So let me get this straight - after 25 years I finally achieve 1K status only to find that in 2012:

(1) The dedicated 1K line is gone and I now get agents in Manila or (shudder) ICC
(2) The dedicated 1K checkin line is gone
(3) The dedicated 1K security checkpoint is gone (at least at SFO)
(4) Priority 1K boarding is gone
(5) Companion upgrades are pretty much shot unless you can clear them with a RPU/SWU - and your record may well get involuntarily split, relegating your companion to E- purgatory or worse

I gotta be frank - I sure don't feel overentitled now that I'm getting the same treatment that I received in my many years at the 1P and 2P level. Maybe Jeff can remind me again why I should strive for 1K, as opposed to an airline that will provide real benefits for flying 100k BIS annually in paid C?

Because at this point I am ready to direct all my business class travel to the competition, where the staff doesn't complain about having to treat me nicely.


Well if you are a Million Miler all the above are chicken feed to what they have lost.

United is headed for Chapter 11 within the next 12 months.

Last edited by ozstamps; May 23, 2012 at 7:42 am
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Old May 23, 2012, 7:37 am
  #960  
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Originally Posted by LarkSFO
63,000 posts and then this?

Please, you are doing a disservice to the FT community and the random few others who may stumble in here.

If YOUR experience is worse than last year, I'll buy that and continue to hope it gets better for you.

But please don't take your experience and try and extrapolate that to the experience of all UA elites.
FWIW, I agree with the OP - 1K just isn't as valuable a perk as it was pre-merger. There is no longer a dedicated 1K call center, the 1K only lines at the check in counter are gone, 1K's no longer get meal selection priority in F and C, and the GPU gets routinely trumped by whatever process is being operated behind the curtain. Yes, after 10 months they have finally fixed the boarding process, but when you look at 1K as it was and as it is, I don't see how you can say it hasn't been degraded.

Yes, United needs to be profitable. Apparently, they have decided that selling upgrades and shoving frequent travelers to the side is the way to get there. I disagree.

Originally Posted by njcommodore
TLikewise, kettles and other price conscious leisure travelers are picking based on price because they can buy all the ancillary products (elite checkin/security/boarding and premium seats) without being elite. The game has changed. The loyalty programs of the 90s are GONE.
I agree. I would prefer that UA just come out and admit it, and start auctioning off upgrades. For example, I'm sitting on the fence with regard to a TPAC I'll be taking in June. Do I go with UA and use one of my increasingly useless GPU's, or try and secure an UG with miles and money? And the end of the day, I may just say forget it and go to the competition. At least on AA, I can secure an UG at time of purchase if I'm willing to pay for it. With UA, it's currently a carnival midway game of chance.

Last edited by halls120; May 23, 2012 at 7:45 am
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