United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".
May 19, 2012, 12:08 pm
#76
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"Hindsight is 20/20, but, we underestimated peoples capacity to absorb change"
Aw its the customer's fault for not liking having to pay more and get MUCH less overnight. Those mean mean 1Ks!
"Hindsight is 20/20, but, we underestimated peoples capacity to absorb change"
Aw its the customer's fault for not liking having to pay more and get MUCH less overnight. Those mean mean 1Ks!
May 19, 2012, 12:09 pm
#77
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with UA Insider's explanation of upgrades, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18590619-post1532.html
the discussion chinatradermr had with Senior VP of Sales, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18585613-post236.html
the desired relationship of the new UA with it customers and elites is becoming clear.
While there had been much speculation, these instance are all painting a much clear situation -- a Brave New World.
May 19, 2012, 12:11 pm
#78
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I've got a simple question. If it's so terrible for a flyer to achieve 1K status on cheap fares, then why is the airline selling the cheap fares in the first place? Is the flyer at fault for buying what the airline is selling or is the airline at fault for selling something it apparently shouldn't be selling?
And, if they don't, they're just as happy selling those sames seats, at the same cheap price, to kettles who demand zero in return.
Last edited by iluv2fly; May 19, 2012 at 4:08 pm Reason: merge
May 19, 2012, 12:11 pm
#79
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This "overentitled elite" has spent six figures over his lifetime at this airline. I know some people spend this in a year, but all but about 20K miles of this have been out of my own pocket. This, plus the people that have flown UA because of me, have absolutely no significance for this management.
This year, I have 0 EQMs, and 0 reserved. I've already flown about 30K miles on a mix on non *A airlines. I already have another 40K booked on non *A airlines. Some of the trips are in the paid J cabin. 26 years of loyalty, the last 20 of which had status, mean absolutely nothing - or worse, it is a negative.
For a trip where I might need 3 heavy bags of luggage and aren't otherwise buying a premium cabin fare elsewhere, I might consider you. Otherwise, the playing field for any individual trip is just about even, or less.
This year, I have 0 EQMs, and 0 reserved. I've already flown about 30K miles on a mix on non *A airlines. I already have another 40K booked on non *A airlines. Some of the trips are in the paid J cabin. 26 years of loyalty, the last 20 of which had status, mean absolutely nothing - or worse, it is a negative.
For a trip where I might need 3 heavy bags of luggage and aren't otherwise buying a premium cabin fare elsewhere, I might consider you. Otherwise, the playing field for any individual trip is just about even, or less.
May 19, 2012, 12:13 pm
#80
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Not a kettle but new business model
I know many of your are incensed, and perhaps legitimately so.
Then again, I believe this was an honest statement of the business model at CO, namely that high-end frequent flyers are not worth the company's energy if they are buying a lot of cheap seats and require a costly and unwieldy infrastructure to manage them.
Why would UaCo be excited about a 1K who achieves his status on the least expensive fares and then expects constant perks such as free upgrades, a dedicated CS line, and semi-official exemptions from fees and rules?
UaCo would just as soon fill those same seats with equally cheap kettles who expect nothing in return and might even occasionally spend some hard cash (even if only ToD's) to sit in FC. If a kettle needs to change a ticket, or do SDC, he or she is paying for it at full dollar value. If they want to sit in E+, they're paying for it, etc.
I'm not saying the CO approach is right, but that's their business model.
Then again, I believe this was an honest statement of the business model at CO, namely that high-end frequent flyers are not worth the company's energy if they are buying a lot of cheap seats and require a costly and unwieldy infrastructure to manage them.
Why would UaCo be excited about a 1K who achieves his status on the least expensive fares and then expects constant perks such as free upgrades, a dedicated CS line, and semi-official exemptions from fees and rules?
UaCo would just as soon fill those same seats with equally cheap kettles who expect nothing in return and might even occasionally spend some hard cash (even if only ToD's) to sit in FC. If a kettle needs to change a ticket, or do SDC, he or she is paying for it at full dollar value. If they want to sit in E+, they're paying for it, etc.
I'm not saying the CO approach is right, but that's their business model.
May 19, 2012, 12:14 pm
#81
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But as far as inexpensive fares, my impression is CO dba UA is much more excited to sell inexpensive fares to anyone (including elites) even for close-in purchases, than to provide perks to elites, many of whom achieve their status by buying inexpensive fares and end up using the program as little more than a discounting scheme.
Again, I'm not saying they're right, but that's pretty much the standard PMCO approach.
Again, I'm not saying they're right, but that's pretty much the standard PMCO approach.
May 19, 2012, 12:14 pm
#82
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AA was over entitled to that money 
May 19, 2012, 12:17 pm
#83
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to our best customers? Maybe SHARES can figure out a way to enhance revenue for that too. Service $29.95, with a smile $59.95 with E+ and a smile $159.95.
The people in the back of the aircraft have been getting zero in return for a long time. That is why I have clawed my way up to my overentitled position.
Evidently, CO dba UA is convinced it has the presence and the muscle to simply tweak the formula in its favor and force customers to go along.
And, if they don't, they're just as happy selling those sames seats, at the same cheap price, to kettles who demand zero in return.
And, if they don't, they're just as happy selling those sames seats, at the same cheap price, to kettles who demand zero in return.
Last edited by iluv2fly; May 19, 2012 at 4:09 pm Reason: merge
May 19, 2012, 12:17 pm
#84
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Maybe we can start a thread like:
"United Top Elite Frequent Flyers State United Management are ..."
The problem for comments like this is that it gives employees a license to not value their customers. It really sets a bad example.
Smisek talks about the new culture of the combined company in these safety videos. Maybe this is it?
"United Top Elite Frequent Flyers State United Management are ..."
The problem for comments like this is that it gives employees a license to not value their customers. It really sets a bad example.
Smisek talks about the new culture of the combined company in these safety videos. Maybe this is it?
May 19, 2012, 12:18 pm
#85
Join Date: Aug 2008
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IFE: "Clearly, customers want to be entertained in flight." "But, it costs $5 - $10 K per screen for seat back screens..." "Passengers bringing their own screens now - Pads / Tablets - support the infrastrucutre / wifi to enable people to consume content on their own devices"
Maybe UA can capture some revenue here similar to restaurants do as a "corking fee" for customers bringing their own bottle of wine to consume. Charge a service fee for using your own device!
To summarize the forecast at UA these days for elites....."Rainey....with a chance of $mi$ek!"
Last edited by goingbananas; May 19, 2012 at 12:48 pm
May 19, 2012, 12:19 pm
#86
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can't see this as anything other than a declaration of war against PMUA Elites, they intend to break them of their sense of entitlement (and loyalty with it).
And this d-bag only got his CFO job because Zane Rowe saw the writing on the wall and ran for the exit!
And this d-bag only got his CFO job because Zane Rowe saw the writing on the wall and ran for the exit!
May 19, 2012, 12:20 pm
#87
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I did not go through all the thread, but Rainey reminded me Glen 'The ham', DL CFO who compared the pax to ham sandwiches... so, I guess we are all over entitled ham sandwiches... :-\
Suggestion to airlines (in general)- keep your CFO's quite when it comes to talking about clients.
Yours,
Your over entitled ham sandwich money spenders revenue makers and shareholder satisfier annual bonus creditors clients...
Suggestion to airlines (in general)- keep your CFO's quite when it comes to talking about clients.
Yours,
Your over entitled ham sandwich money spenders revenue makers and shareholder satisfier annual bonus creditors clients...
May 19, 2012, 12:22 pm
#88
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This "overentitled elite" has spent six figures over his lifetime at this airline. I know some people spend this in a year, but all but about 20K miles of this have been out of my own pocket. This, plus the people that have flown UA because of me, have absolutely no significance for this management.
This year, I have 0 EQMs, and 0 reserved. I've already flown about 30K miles on a mix on non *A airlines. I already have another 40K booked on non *A airlines. Some of the trips are in the paid J cabin. 26 years of loyalty, the last 20 of which had status, mean absolutely nothing - or worse, it is a negative.
For a trip where I might need 3 heavy bags of luggage and aren't otherwise buying a premium cabin fare elsewhere, I might consider you. Otherwise, the playing field for any individual trip is just about even, or less.
This year, I have 0 EQMs, and 0 reserved. I've already flown about 30K miles on a mix on non *A airlines. I already have another 40K booked on non *A airlines. Some of the trips are in the paid J cabin. 26 years of loyalty, the last 20 of which had status, mean absolutely nothing - or worse, it is a negative.
For a trip where I might need 3 heavy bags of luggage and aren't otherwise buying a premium cabin fare elsewhere, I might consider you. Otherwise, the playing field for any individual trip is just about even, or less.
Then again, the way the CO business model works, not only don't they need you to spend all that money, they would actually prefer you didn't.
I know that sounds very strange, but the fact is they would rather sell those same seats you bought to a large group of kettles, all of whom would pay the same fare as you, expect no perks in return (no free upgrades, no dedicated CS, no free checked bags) and also need to pay cash for any supplemental service (flight change fee, SDC fee, checked bag fee, E+ buy-up fee, etc.)
Again, I'm not saying they are right. In actuality, the kettle, by definition, is less loyal and thus more fickle. He can fly UA one day, then WN the next, and B6 another.
The fact is these "business models" are really more based on gut feelings than actual hard data. There is no way to definitively verify if a 1K is a drain or an asset to the bottom line, because of the monstrous complexity of the airline pricing, and because it's essentially impossible to enact two business models simultaneously.
So each carrier does what they believe is right. In my case, DL has been taking very good care of me as a lowly silver, so that's where virtually all my business has gone the past couple of years.
May 19, 2012, 12:23 pm
#89
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It's not about what benefits the program provides to the customer, it's about what benefits the customer provides to the program.
That's the key right there.
If a 1k is achieving his status on $300 round trip transcons and then expecting routine upgrades, dedicated CS (1K line), exemption for change fees and rules, the customer is providing no benefit to the program, quite the contrary, in fact.
That's the key right there.
If a 1k is achieving his status on $300 round trip transcons and then expecting routine upgrades, dedicated CS (1K line), exemption for change fees and rules, the customer is providing no benefit to the program, quite the contrary, in fact.
The 1k that achieves his/her status solely on those $300 roundtrip transcons (if you can find them) is probably an Urban myth or, at the very least, a negligibly small minority.
I am not a really big spender, but from this day on my $10,000 to $15,000 in air-travel spending per year is going to AA. Glad I did the status match.
UA does not want my business. Fine, it is going away.
May 19, 2012, 12:26 pm
#90
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Some people will justify anything. If the new United should throw out E+ and upgrade benefits completely, I am sure you will be there to justify it.
The 1k that achieves his/her status solely on those $300 roundtrip transcons (if you can find them) is probably an Urban myth or, at the very least, a negligibly small minority.
I am not a really big spender, but from this day on my $10,000 to $15,000 in air-travel spending per year is going to AA. Glad I did the status match.
UA does not want my business. Fine, it is going away.
Same. Im not going to be insulted in that manner. There's a line and it was crossed
Originally Posted by colonius
It's not about what benefits the program provides to the customer, it's about what benefits the customer provides to the program.
That's the key right there.
If a 1k is achieving his status on $300 round trip transcons and then expecting routine upgrades, dedicated CS (1K line), exemption for change fees and rules, the customer is providing no benefit to the program, quite the contrary, in fact.
That's the key right there.
If a 1k is achieving his status on $300 round trip transcons and then expecting routine upgrades, dedicated CS (1K line), exemption for change fees and rules, the customer is providing no benefit to the program, quite the contrary, in fact.
The 1k that achieves his/her status solely on those $300 roundtrip transcons (if you can find them) is probably an Urban myth or, at the very least, a negligibly small minority.
I am not a really big spender, but from this day on my $10,000 to $15,000 in air-travel spending per year is going to AA. Glad I did the status match.
UA does not want my business. Fine, it is going away.