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United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

Old May 19, 12, 12:59 pm
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Bowgie View Post
Your description just nailed me and my relationship with Delta Skymiles.

Personally, I think high-mileage and low-fare paying customer do bring lots of incremental revenue to an airline by using up excess (cheap) seat capacity and forcing others to buy higher fare buckets. I've seen the contrary case argued often at FT. In one sense, it does not matter to us, the flyers. There will ALWAYS be an airline who values high mileage customers. We are airline customers, not stockholders.
No need to help a airline see the mistake of its business decisions when it is so much easier to walk over to the competition.

I think you all get that United 1K's and GS's are being hosed.

I am surprised that United mid-tiers are not equally upset. Only a 50% bonus on redeemable miles for United 50k flyers, and 75% bonus for 75k flyers. It's still 100% for the equivalent at Delta or American.

Why waste time hoping United will change? Just choose between American and Delta, and be done with it!
I agree you wholeheartedly that rewarding elites who buy cheap fares is actually good business.

But that has never been the way PMCO analyzes its operation.

I think, at its root, it indicates a desire to try to reduce the inherent risk that pervades the airline business, namely that to commit costly resources to entitled elites is risky while revenue from a kettle's ToD is hard cash in the bank.
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Old May 19, 12, 1:00 pm
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by dkc715 View Post
"We have certain groups in this (Mileage Plus) program that were over entitled..." according to United's CFO John Rainey, as per his presentation at the BofA Transportation Conference held on May 17th. The entire webcast is available on United's investor relations website, and he makes the comment 11- 12 minutes into the presentation. Since the CFO is a PMCO guy, I imagine he is referring to PMUA fliers. Mr. Rainey also raves about Shares.

So, I guess we have the answer to all of the complaints enumerated by Premiers, 1Ks, GS, MM, etc. We were simply over entitled, not loyal!! Our new airline.

Wow. As we discover the full extent of what has really been done post 3/3, I never cease to be amazed at how horrible this once great airline has become. This management team is rotten from the top and even if that's how they feel and what they think, speaking this way about your most valuable customers in a public forum is positively outrageous and in a rational company would be grounds for termination.

Thank you for sharing.

As many other posters have mentioned, I'm really glad that these **** are not over-entitled for their multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses.
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Old May 19, 12, 1:00 pm
  #63  
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Originally Posted by ptspellman View Post
Seriously! Do people not understand what socialism is? Government controlling the means of production. In what possible sense does a private corporation's policies have anything to do with government control of production?

If you want to use an epithet pick one that is relevant.
The word has been misused and distorted over the past 4 years to mean anything that reduces inequality. Hence the use in this thread.
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Old May 19, 12, 1:01 pm
  #64  
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Originally Posted by demkr View Post
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Oh it is? Tell me how profitable was COdbaUA last quarter compared to Delta, who actually upgrades their elites and provides the plane w/ lots of IFE.. Or even AA for that matter?

The blatant COdbaUA apologism doesn't work when the facts don't fit what you're saying
Please don't get me wrong.

I do not agree with this approach one bit. In fact, an earlier iteration of these policies led me to bolt from CO years ago.

But I did try to understand them, had some fairly in-depth conversations with CO executives, and researched their public comments.

I'm not apologizing for any of this which I dislike as much as you. I'm really just trying to inform and explain, to attempt to replace understandable anger and emotion with a more rational explanation (even if I do not agree with it).
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Old May 19, 12, 1:02 pm
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Bowgie View Post
Your description just nailed me and my relationship with Delta Skymiles.

Personally, I think high-mileage and low-fare paying customer do bring lots of incremental revenue to an airline by using up excess (cheap) seat capacity and forcing others to buy higher fare buckets. I've seen the contrary case argued often at FT. In one sense, it does not matter to us, the flyers. There will ALWAYS be an airline who values high mileage customers. We are airline customers, not stockholders.
No need to help a airline see the mistake of its business decisions when it is so much easier to walk over to the competition.

I think you all get that United 1K's and GS's are being hosed.

I am surprised that United mid-tiers are not equally upset. Only a 50% bonus on redeemable miles for United 50k flyers, and 75% bonus for 75k flyers. It's still 100% for the equivalent at Delta or American.

Why waste time hoping United will change? Just choose between American and Delta, and be done with it!
Originally Posted by Plane-is-home View Post
no more exclusive benefits
Dedicated GS line gone or answered by total newbies
GS email answered in 3 weeks or more
GS service at airports non existent any longer
GS dedicated agents on international flights hardly there any longer
GS pre boarding only on paper ( maybe 1 out of 10)
GS meal choice the same (2 out of 10 for me on paid F)
Upgrades AFTER TODs or not at all. Last week on UA125 3 F seats were open after boarding. GA pulls 3 people up, non 1k or GS; they were very surprised themselves a GS from E+ stood up and complained. GA ignored him.
GS is just a very expensive version of silver but with better luggage tags
Wow! I went from a 1K for about 10 years to a couple US shuttle flights credited to UA last year and about the same this year. I had no idea it was this bad. I will probably go well over 1K this year on AA, and was thinking of booking the excess on UA since I am still a UA 1MM flyer. I may reconsider and look at DL or just keep it all on AA.
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Old May 19, 12, 1:03 pm
  #66  
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Originally Posted by UAPremierGuy View Post
I'm predicting that this will become one of the most important threads on this forum this year. As I stated earlier, I personally feel that it speaks volumes about the COdbaUA mindset. All elites should be outraged by this statement, and, excepting locations with no other alternative, I strongly suggest that people vote with their feet and move their business from UA. This type of behavior should not be tolerated.
Since I routinely listen to United's investor calls as a Wall Street guy and a former avid PMUA flier, I was simply stunned by the CFO's words and couldn't believe he said it. So I posted it. No doubt this is the way management truely feels. Cat is out of the bag and time for damage control. Hope the press puts the CFO quote in the newspaper, or one of UA's competitors uses the quote. Who needs status match when insults will suffice.
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Old May 19, 12, 1:03 pm
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by demkr View Post
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I'd agree if other airlines were doing this. They're not. Sure there's occasional cutbacks of things like checked bag benefits but DL, AA, and US do much better on upgrades for the top tier than UA does
Remember. FF programs make a profit for the airlines. It's a HUGE business worth millions and millions of dollars in revenue to the airline. Chase alone pays UA millions of $$ a year for the miles they give out. These Programs started as a marketing idea. Now they are separate corporations that almost always make a profit. (look at the rental car companies. They were paying the airlines aprx $2 per rental to give customers airline miles. They now pass that charge back to us
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Old May 19, 12, 1:03 pm
  #68  
 
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Okay. So in those discussions, if CO management feels that way- just what the heck is the point of a loyalty program ?
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Old May 19, 12, 1:04 pm
  #69  
 
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Originally Posted by TWA Fan 1 View Post
They're not unhappy about people buying $300 fares, but they are evidently not happy about people enough $300 fares to achieve 1K status and then demand costly perks in return.
I've got a simple question. If it's so terrible for a flyer to achieve 1K status on cheap fares, then why is the airline selling the cheap fares in the first place? Is the flyer at fault for buying what the airline is selling or is the airline at fault for selling something it apparently shouldn't be selling?
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Old May 19, 12, 1:06 pm
  #70  
 
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Shares, coffee, upgrades,attitude

"Hindsight is 20/20, but, we underestimated peoples capacity to absorb change"

1K BIS is not to be sniffed at. I don't feel particularly entitled. I just expect clear rules and fair application. There was a time when they desperately needed loyalty. Next time around they shouldn't expect it. They have become over entitled. A lot of what they did for us was done by a more robust reservation system that figured out who we were and took care of us with little human intervention. I saw that a couple times where they really came through for me last year when they cancelled and reaccomodated seamessly without my asking for anything. That was the beauty of it. A relatively low cost way to make high mileage people feel appreciated. I used them for all my personal travel and steered business travel their way. I might add that the elite tag on a record also showed in human interaction. People were trained to make the extra effort for the hi mile passengers. Did they go too low? Were they too generous? Did it cost them that much? Who knows but now I feel like I have been singled out for punishment even revenge for sticking with them. This is a real nasty bunch we are dealing with.
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Old May 19, 12, 1:06 pm
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Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr
Originally Posted by demkr View Post
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I'd agree if other airlines were doing this. They're not. Sure there's occasional cutbacks of things like checked bag benefits but DL, AA, and US do much better on upgrades for the top tier than UA does
Remember. FF programs make a profit for the airlines. It's a HUGE business worth millions and millions of dollars in revenue to the airline. Chase alone pays UA millions of $$ a year for the miles they give out. These Programs started as a marketing idea. Now they are separate corporations that almost always make a profit. (look at the rental car companies. They were paying the airlines aprx $2 per rental to give customers airline miles. They now pass that charge back to us
Right I agree w/ this. But what I don't get is why they'd try to hose the top tier first. Yes i know the mid tiers lost mileage bonuses and all that, but for some reason- they want to dramatically reduce our upgrade rates. Do they think a 1K that had a 95% rate go down to a 50% rate (where mine is now- oh and I haven't bought anything below a W fare) is going to have incentive to keep spending on an airline that won't reward loyalty and would rather take $15 from a Non-elite for the seat?
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Old May 19, 12, 1:06 pm
  #72  
 
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MileagePlus: "We had certain groups that were overentitled, if you will"

"The truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off"
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Old May 19, 12, 1:07 pm
  #73  
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Maybe we can start a thread like:

"United Top Elite Frequent Flyers State United Management are ..."

The problem for comments like this is that it gives employees a license to not value their customers. It really sets a bad example.

Smisek talks about the new culture of the combined company in these safety videos. Maybe this is it?
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Old May 19, 12, 1:07 pm
  #74  
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Originally Posted by penner42 View Post
I fail to see how someone flying 25K a year was "over entitled" to get more than one free checked bag when someone with a credit card with a $395 annual fee gets a Club membership valued at $475 AND two free checked bags.

Honestly, as a silver never expecting to get upgrades, the bags and E+ were the two things I cared about most.
Why? Because they look at it in the "macro" sense.

Sure, 25,000 is a lot of miles.

Then again, if you're flying 25,000 on $300 transcons, it's only about $1,500 of total annual revenue. And when that customer achieves elite status he/she excepts perks in return (not just one free bag)

The point is the seats that represent those 25,000 miles will always get sold, and they might as well sell them to kettles who receive no freebies.

As far as the credit card, the give-aways are pretty small, and UA shares in the annual fee with bank so it's guaranteed cash in the bank.
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Old May 19, 12, 1:08 pm
  #75  
 
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Originally Posted by dkc715 View Post
"We have certain groups in this (Mileage Plus) program that were over entitled..." according to United's CFO John Rainey, as per his presentation at the BofA Transportation Conference held on May 17th. The entire webcast is available on United's investor relations website, and he makes the comment 11- 12 minutes into the presentation. Since the CFO is a PMCO guy, I imagine he is referring to PMUA fliers. Mr. Rainey also raves about Shares.

So, I guess we have the answer to all of the complaints enumerated by Premiers, 1Ks, GS, MM, etc. We were simply over entitled, not loyal!! Our new airline.

"We have certain groups in this (Mileage Plus) program that were over entitled..." according to United's CFO John Rainey

Emphasis mine.

Have and Were are confusing to me.
Is he saying elites were over entitled, or they have over entitled elites now?
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